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-   -   Carrier Tilt? (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/carrier-tilt-61744/)

blucoondawg 04-03-2012 04:37 PM

Carrier Tilt?
 
Is anyone here familiar with carrier tilt causing wear in upper receivers on rifles with piston operated actions? I read on another sight that most guns fitted with this system have had this problem. I am all ready to order a PSA Hammer Forged Middy and my buddy is trying to convince me to pick up the Huldra piston upper instead, it's made by Adams Arms and sold as Huldra through Mills Fleet Farm stores. I like the idea behind the piston and also the melanite barrel they use and supposedly they did something different with the BCG eliminating the problem of tilt but I have not seen anywhere it has been proven. I don't want to buy something that is going to wear prematurely causing problems.

AgentTikki 04-03-2012 04:51 PM

Point of contention: I believe that Huldra produces the upper, and they use the Adams Arms Piston systems on them.

There's a lots of threads debating piston vs DI. I prefer DI, but that's just me. Lighter, smoother shooting, cheaper, and just as reliable.

Chrome lasts longer than Melonite. In this application, that PSA barrel is probably a better choice.

Carrier tilt occured with a lot of early generation pistons. I believe most current productions have worked out the problems.

fsted2a 04-03-2012 04:59 PM

If you can get a really good deal, I would get one without the piston, but with a screw tightened gas block. That would give you the option of adding a piston set up if you so desired at a later date (Adams Arms piston kit requires you replace the gas block, which increases the difficulty significantly if yours has the tapered pins holding it in). I have an Ares (Bushmaster bought them out a couple years ago) piston in mine, and the "carrier tilt" issue has never come up. Mine fires any type of ammo, and hasn't give me any problems. The Bushmaster kit allows you to use the same gas block. Getting back to the original question, if ease of cleaning is your only concern, I suggest you just spray some solvent in the BCG, chamber, and gas tube, then lube afterward and call it a day after firing. 5 minutes tops. I wouldn't spend more than 100 bucks for the difference. There are several companies out there slapping an Adams Arms kit in their uppers, and stamping their name on it.

fsted2a 04-03-2012 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgentTikki (Post 760438)
Point of contention: I believe that Huldra produces the upper, and they use the Adams Arms Piston systems on them.

There's a lots of threads debating piston vs DI. I prefer DI, but that's just me. Lighter, smoother shooting, cheaper, and just as reliable.

Chrome lasts longer than Melonite. In this application, that PSA barrel is probably a better choice.

Carrier tilt occured with a lot of early generation pistons. I believe most current productions have worked out the problems.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/ar-15-cycling-operation-discussion-35134/
Quentin, MJ, and I beat this issue up a while back.

blucoondawg 04-03-2012 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgentTikki (Post 760438)

Chrome lasts longer than Melonite. In this application, that PSA barrel is probably a better choice.

Has anyone ever done any serious testing to prove the chrome lasts longer? I was up late last night reading different stuff on other forums and nobody really had any smoking evidence either way but the melanite didn't sound bad, I too thought chrome would be the better way to go at first.

AgentTikki 04-03-2012 05:50 PM

SOURCE:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=83495


For those who haven't seen it before, there's an actual US Army study of barrel wear with different finishes. Download it here:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf

In short, they concluded that nitrocarburizing significantly increased barrel life vs. plain steel, but chrome plating increased barrel life to an even greater extent.

blucoondawg 04-03-2012 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AgentTikki (Post 760479)
SOURCE:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=83495


For those who haven't seen it before, there's an actual US Army study of barrel wear with different finishes. Download it here:

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf

In short, they concluded that nitrocarburizing significantly increased barrel life vs. plain steel, but chrome plating increased barrel life to an even greater extent.

Ya, this is the forum I was doing some reading on last night, I saw the military testing done but I don't know how much I can believe that since it is from the 1960s, and alot of improvements could have been made over the last 40 years to both types of barrel treatments, also the print was so blurry on that mil document on my pdf that I couldn't really read it but I take your word for it at that time chrome tested better. I wish there was testing done with the modern barrels. I think I am going to play it safe and stick with the hammer forged PSA anyways, maybe I'll pick up a piston gun as my second AR.

AgentTikki 04-03-2012 06:24 PM

FNC is the same. The methods used have changed making it suitable for mass production.

While I do agree with you, I would prefer data from testing done by an impartial source, the cost of doing the test would be pretty astronomical. Can you imagine how many rounds you need to perform the test on a large enough sample size? Only someone with deep pockets. There are soo many parameters that need testing too, and you will need a lot of barrels. I would volunteer my shoulder and trigger finger and a week of my life to help this happen....... :D

The biggest benefit for FNC is the fact that it is uniform and actually treats the metal itself. It is harder than chrome but not as thick as chrome.

IMO for non precision type builds chrome is better than FNC.

For precision type builds, FNC is better. But like I've state before, after talking with a couple precision barrel makers, they recommend that you FNC your barrel AFTER break-in for best results.

blucoondawg 04-03-2012 06:32 PM

Yes I know, therein lies the problem, cost. It's cheaper to go with the DI system anyways which was my whole point to the PSA kit I was looking at in the first place.


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