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Old 02-12-2012, 02:30 PM   #21
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If you have a BM or any other gun that works, great! And if you're buying, well it's a free country, go where your research leads you. But remember, the new Bushmaster that dumped all the old machinery and employees at Windham, Maine and Lake Havasu City, AZ has slipped a few notches since moving to Ilion, NY. In fact a new company, Windham (made in the old Windham factory using the old machinery and employees), puts out rifles that are more BM than BM does today!

Still, there are better ARs out there for the money. If on a budget and you want a duty rifle you really should be looking at PSA. If you can justify a little more then look at BCM, DD and Colt. It's nothing to get upset about and it's not hate. Heck my first AR is an ArmaLite and it's all right. But knowing what I know now would I buy another ArmaLite? No.

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Old 02-12-2012, 02:52 PM   #22
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I was not Aware BM had moved the factory. Have you seen any comparative range reports on old production VS new production rifles or have any research showing a cheaper build? Have they become more of an assembler than a builder? These factors would give me pause. My XM15 was bought 8 years ago and performed very well but so was my Kimber 1911 and I've seen several threads talking about slipping quality control and reduced customer service for them? Never had a problem with my Kimber either so I have to wonder how much of this comes from newbies and gets parrot'd about the web and how much is actually fact?

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Old 02-12-2012, 03:42 PM   #23
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You could go to BM forums and see what the scuttlebutt is on the Ilion guns. I've seen bad reports but have no first hand experience. Years ago when I was getting back into ARs after the AWB sunset I was pretty sure I'd get a Bushmaster. Then I realized I could build something as good or better for less money so lost interest in the brand. Then the crappy way they shut out their employees in AZ then later in Maine, well BM is pretty low on my "chart" now.

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Old 02-12-2012, 04:46 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by sputnik1988 View Post
I understand what you are saying, but I'm sure a custom made Les Baer AR would be better than a DD or a PSA, doesn't mean it's gonna run any better or last any longer. I'm sure a Ferrari is a better car than an Volkswagen, while something may not be the best, its not always, nor usually necessary for a top of the line museum piece.

That being said, I may still look at a PSA if they are cheaper around here.
Les Baer/ DD, Ferrari/VW, apples to oranges. I was just watching Top Gear last night. They did a review on a Ferrari, I think it was a 559. The AC didn't work reliably. Now the VW, which I have owned 3 (Touareg, Beetle, Jetta TDI), is a work horse. The Les Baer is a custom job while the DD is a workhorse. Check out the torture test video. Not saying the Baer is bad because they are not from what little I know.

The price gap in the AR world is small but the quality gap is large. I've always felt if you have the money to purchase, feed and enjoy an AR you have the finances to spend the extra $100-$200 on something better.

Edit: If you don't have the $100-$200 save a little longer. Skip the fast food one month. Hit up the drinking fountain instead of the vending machine.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:57 PM   #25
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Why is BM junk? I've had one since 01 and never had any problems.

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Old 02-12-2012, 05:01 PM   #26
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Why is BM junk? I've had one since 01 and never had any problems.
Read the posts in this thread. Quentin covers the answer to your question.
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Old 02-12-2012, 09:29 PM   #27
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This is an interesting thread by a Bushmaster vendor who upgrades the LE rifles he sells to improve reliability. He did the bare minimum to keep down cost but the rifle still ended up with a commercial receiver extension, mid-grade BCG and barrel. And this was the old BM, today's may have other issues due to lower profit margins. And all this brings up the question, why not look at what other manufacturers offer at around the same price point?

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13532

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Old 02-12-2012, 09:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
This is an interesting thread by a Bushmaster vendor who upgrades the LE rifles he sells to improve reliability. He did the bare minimum to keep down cost but the rifle still ended up with a commercial receiver extension, mid-grade BCG and barrel. And this was the old BM, today's may have other issues due to lower profit margins. And all this brings up the question, why not look at what other manufacturers offer at around the same price point?

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=13532
I had forgotten about that thread. It was a good read. My thing is and I'm sure you'll agree, you shouldn't have to spend so much time getting a brand new factory rifle to work reliably.

Take some pride in you product/name.
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Old 02-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #29
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Yeah it would be real annoying to spend xxxx ($1200 list price, no doubt they go lower) on the A3 Bushmaster then find that it comes with a commercial tube, non- H buffer, improper extractor, non tested BCG and barrel, short FSB and improper gas keys and staking. (My buddy's 2008 BM does not have M4 feed ramps either.) For about that price point a Colt, BCM or Daniel Defense wouldn't have those issues.

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Old 02-12-2012, 10:16 PM   #30
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Yeah it would be real annoying to spend xxxx ($1200 list price, no doubt they go lower) on the A3 Bushmaster then find that it comes with a commercial tube, non- H buffer, improper extractor, non tested BCG and barrel, short FSB and improper gas keys and staking. (My buddy's 2008 BM does not have M4 feed ramps either.) For about that price point a Colt, BCM or Daniel Defense wouldn't have those issues.
And the things you listed are easy to get right and other than the feed ramps and testing are as simple as having the proper parts in house for the assemblers to install. I understand pennies add up but in my mind it isn't worth such a bad reputation.
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