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Build you own gas piston AR


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Old 10-07-2013, 05:09 AM   #21
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Even starting with a stripped upper and lower its not designed to be a piston driven system. I firmly believe piston ar are a solution looking for a problem that never existed.

While they can be made to run well they just offer no real discernable advantage over a di gun made with the same care. At least ive never seen any quantifiable proof its better.
In theory piston system is better because it doesn't dump the majority of the junk in the action. Soldiers have to fire their weapons for extended periods of time in some scenarios, and cleaning them isn't an option.
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:21 AM   #22
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In theory piston system is better because it doesn't dump the majority of the junk in the action. Soldiers have to fire their weapons for extended periods of time in some scenarios, and cleaning them isn't an option.
Get a little moisture or gunk or oil in a piston and it stops just the same.

Anyway firing a m16a1 and a2 for extended periods happend a lot for me and came in the form of live ammo and blanks. I remember plenty of times running several thousands of rounds at a go through my issue rifle without failure.

Army time is 10% stark terror 90% boredom. During that 90% you clean weapons. Weapons got cleaned everday when issued whether fired or not. Always before any eating was done and definately before any sleeping.

The beauty of the m16 is its stupid easy to keep operationally clean. Takes about two minutes with a oily rag. Long as there arent any rocks sticks in the lower just wipe down the bcg and its channel in the upper good to go.
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Old 10-07-2013, 03:30 PM   #23
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Get a little moisture or gunk or oil in a piston and it stops just the same.

Anyway firing a m16a1 and a2 for extended periods happend a lot for me and came in the form of live ammo and blanks. I remember plenty of times running several thousands of rounds at a go through my issue rifle without failure.

Army time is 10% stark terror 90% boredom. During that 90% you clean weapons. Weapons got cleaned everday when issued whether fired or not. Always before any eating was done and definately before any sleeping.

The beauty of the m16 is its stupid easy to keep operationally clean. Takes about two minutes with a oily rag. Long as there arent any rocks sticks in the lower just wipe down the bcg and its channel in the upper good to go.
Jon, a lot of people post on here after seeing an ad or a youtube video of an AR with this or that piston system, and they probably have one of those bottom of the barrel AR's that they think a new gadget will make it perform like a champ. Before the prices of the pistons started coming down a bit, I think the last gadget that gave a lot of promise was the hydraulic buffer. Adams Arms website use to be AR15fix.com, or something like that. To be honest, I sell more piston AR's by putting them in a pail of water then firing them like HK does, even though none of my customers will ever do anything more than take them to the range and shoot paper targets. That is about the only real advantage a piston has over DI, and from my understanding, PSA has a DI rifle they do that with now. I like piston AR's, don't get me wrong, but I get tired of jokers on forums spouting what they claim to be facts about pistons and DI when they don't have a clue. Most of it depends on who built what, and how much time they spent trying to get it right. A lot of gripes from the military side of the house come from guys who were issued an M16 in which half or more of its parts had been replaced. I cringed watching an armorer replace a barrel. He would not use a torque wrench on the barrel nut, he didn't check to make sure the teeth were centered so that the sides of the nut wouldn't touch the tube, he would bend the gas tube trying to insert it through the front of the receiver instead of going through the back. The pin of the barrel extension wasn't centered in the notch of the receiver, so when the shooter fired at the zero range and he was at mechanical zero, the round went about 3-5 inches to the left or right. Anyway, a half assed put together new AR will cause people to look for a solution other than fixing the gun, even if it is more expensive. I am one of the bigger advocates for piston AR's, because I enjoy putting them together, and they do have their benefits. Most shooters simply do not have the skills to install a piston system, because if they did, they probably would have made their DI AR perform like a champ and wouldn't be worrying about the piston, which would make this thread a moot point.
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Old 10-07-2013, 04:35 PM   #24
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In theory piston system is better because it doesn't dump the majority of the junk in the action. Soldiers have to fire their weapons for extended periods of time in some scenarios, and cleaning them isn't an option.
Some what true , but with over 8000 + rounds thru one of my DI ARs and zero failures during this period with no cleaning was done , just a few drops of oil on the BCG every outing and I shot all kinds of ammo from Federal , winchester , Tula, Privi , brown bear, Wolf and many others . Yes it was dirty in the lower but it wasnt a caked on mess like the locking lug/ chamber area . None of which kept it from firing . There isnt anything wrong with a properly built / functioning piston gun, its just not my prefered choice . I personally dont like something having proprietary parts but it is a different system and the 2 arent the same . Surly there will be a break in a soldiers battle for a lube and or cleaning especially in that type of round count .
Both systems have been around a long time but in different rifles .
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Old 10-07-2013, 07:45 PM   #25
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, but with over 8000 + rounds thru one of my DI ARs and zero failures during this period with no cleaning was done
Is it safe to put 8000 rounds through a rifle and not clean the junk out? I'm surely assuming non corossive ammo, but still, would it eat in or scratch parts at all?
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:20 PM   #26
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Is it safe to put 8000 rounds through a rifle and not clean the junk out? I'm surely assuming non corossive ammo, but still, would it eat in or scratch parts at all?
Google "BCM filthy 14". Over 40,000 rounds with the documented cleaning, breakage/parts replacement rate well documented. I know it went at least 20,000 rounds with no cleaning, just adding lube but somewhere around the 20,000 point they cleaned it a bit to replace an extractor and spring. Accuracy changes were also documented, and at 48,000 rounds it was still capable of 1.5 inch groups at 50 yds. As I said, ARs are a lot more reliable than many people on the internet would lead people to believe. Not likely that many situations would ask for prolonged shooting like that without cleaning. Even prolonged firefights see rifles using nowhere near 1,000 rounds between cleanings.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:32 PM   #27
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Is it safe to put 8000 rounds through a rifle and not clean the junk out? I'm surely assuming non corossive ammo, but still, would it eat in or scratch parts at all?
the AR was designed to run in less than favorable environments to begin with. they were not made to be babied or treated like safe queens. so with proper maintenance and cleaning, and oiling, an AR should by all means outlast the owner with only minor parts needing replaced.

not aware of any corrosive ammo ever being made for the AR's. might be some foreign made ammo that might be though.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:15 PM   #28
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the AR was designed to run in less than favorable environments to begin with. they were not made to be babied or treated like safe queens. so with proper maintenance and cleaning, and oiling, an AR should by all means outlast the owner with only minor parts needing replaced.

not aware of any corrosive ammo ever being made for the AR's. might be some foreign made ammo that might be though.
I've been told a few years back the russian steel case ammo was corrosive, but I never had a problem with it.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:22 PM   #29
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Jon, a lot of people post on here after seeing an ad or a youtube video of an AR with this or that piston system, and they probably have one of those bottom of the barrel AR's that they think a new gadget will make it perform like a champ. Before the prices of the pistons started coming down a bit, I think the last gadget that gave a lot of promise was the hydraulic buffer. Adams Arms website use to be AR15fix.com, or something like that. To be honest, I sell more piston AR's by putting them in a pail of water then firing them like HK does, even though none of my customers will ever do anything more than take them to the range and shoot paper targets. That is about the only real advantage a piston has over DI, and from my understanding, PSA has a DI rifle they do that with now. I like piston AR's, don't get me wrong, but I get tired of jokers on forums spouting what they claim to be facts about pistons and DI when they don't have a clue. Most of it depends on who built what, and how much time they spent trying to get it right. A lot of gripes from the military side of the house come from guys who were issued an M16 in which half or more of its parts had been replaced. I cringed watching an armorer replace a barrel. He would not use a torque wrench on the barrel nut, he didn't check to make sure the teeth were centered so that the sides of the nut wouldn't touch the tube, he would bend the gas tube trying to insert it through the front of the receiver instead of going through the back. The pin of the barrel extension wasn't centered in the notch of the receiver, so when the shooter fired at the zero range and he was at mechanical zero, the round went about 3-5 inches to the left or right. Anyway, a half assed put together new AR will cause people to look for a solution other than fixing the gun, even if it is more expensive. I am one of the bigger advocates for piston AR's, because I enjoy putting them together, and they do have their benefits. Most shooters simply do not have the skills to install a piston system, because if they did, they probably would have made their DI AR perform like a champ and wouldn't be worrying about the piston, which would make this thread a moot point.
thats my point. long as something is built correctly it should function as designed.

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I've been told a few years back the russian steel case ammo was corrosive, but I never had a problem with it.
commercially available steel cased stuff is non-corosive. there is no corrosive 556/223 out there.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #30
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I've been told a few years back the russian steel case ammo was corrosive, but I never had a problem with it.
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thats my point. long as something is built correctly it should function as designed.



commercially available steel cased stuff is non-corosive. there is no corrosive 556/223 out there.
what about the primers being corrosive? IIRC, the powder could be non-corrosive but still have corrosive primers.

and even if it had corrosive powder or primers, doesn't hot water neutralize it?
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