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Old 12-27-2011, 11:56 PM   #231
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I can't speak for everyone else, but when I was speaking of the ability to attach "add-ons", I'm speaking solely of optics. It is much easier to mount optics of any kind on an AR-15 than most other weapon platforms, M14 included.

-Fred

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Old 12-28-2011, 01:01 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by FCross7 View Post
I can't speak for everyone else, but when I was speaking of the ability to attach "add-ons", I'm speaking solely of optics. It is much easier to mount optics of any kind on an AR-15 than most other weapon platforms, M14 included.

-Fred
I found it pretty easy to mount any optic on my SCAR16s you have 14 inches from the rear BUIS.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:11 AM   #233
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The best is the AK47 or any clone there of. You don't need fancy sights or grenade launchers; with the AK's magical abilities, you can just point and shoot and all will fall before you.

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Old 12-28-2011, 01:12 AM   #234
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I found it pretty easy to mount any optic on my SCAR16s you have 14 inches from the rear BUIS.
Good point. I should amend that and say anything with a picatinny railed top is easier.

-Fred
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:36 AM   #235
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The best is the AK47 or any clone there of. You don't need fancy sights or grenade launchers; with the AK's magical abilities, you can just point and shoot and all will fall before you.
Just to see how it would work I bought a cheap dustcover with a rail and stuck my EOTech 553 on my AMD-65, it really worked great, I really like that little Hungarian tanker rifle.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:10 AM   #236
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It all depends on the mission. Are you going on days-long LRRP's? Then you probably want small and light ... something in 5.56. Assaulting an apartment house? Definitely small and light... and maybe bullpup for ease of maneuver. If your mission is to be a "designated sniper", then 7.62 is probably the way to go for range and accuracy. The mixes and matches are endless. That's why the original government SCAR requirement had all sorts of "reconfigurable" options for "tailoring" the weapon to the mission.

Me? I'm just an old Soldier looking to retire somewhere away from the city off the beaten track. Will I hunt? Probably, but not a lot. Will I have fun plinking? You bet. But my primary concern is self defense. That means I want the longest range in a round that will have the greatest chance of remaining available. 270 or 30-06? Maybe, but don't count on availability if things go terribly wrong. As long as the military is still functioning, NATO standard should be around. That means I'll take 7.62x51 (308). Is it heavy? Yes. Are the bullet launchers usually heavy? Yup. But I'm not intending on doing any patrolling past the "back forty", so its not really an issue. If the bad guys have M4's or M16's... I'll engage them while they are still hundreds of meters too far away to engage ME. Remember, the Taliban has learned to engage our folks at 750+ meters where we can't touch them with 5.56. That's why we are reissuing M14's in many places. The whole movement of the military back towards 7.62x51 is becoming overwhelming. There are lots of studies out there that describe the "tumbling" that 5.56 experiences, and so on.

Why not an AK? Well, again, in the future the ammo availability may be an issue. The main point, though, is simply the difference in philosophy between AK and M14. M14 is a rifle that has a secondary mission as a machine gun. AK is a machine gun with the secondary mission of a rifle. If you don't believe that, look at the relative positions of semi-auto and full auto on the selector switches of both weapons. AK is built from stamped parts that fit relatively loosely, allowing increased reliability. Dirt, dust, etc don't bother it much. But this increased reliability comes at the price of somewhat degraded accuracy. The M14 is made from high precision cast parts. It is much "tighter" and less forgiving of carbon, dust, dirt, etc. But it is also more accurate. Since my "mission" will be to defend hearth and home, with plenty of time to clean any weapon I choose... I'll take the accuracy of M14 over the reliability of the AK.

Why not an AR10? I'm not so hard over here. AR10 looks cool. AR10 "hefts" like the M16 I cut my teeth on. But if I need a club, I'll take the M14. I also note that our folks in Afghan are getting a lot more M14's than AR10's, even though the cost of refurbishing an M14 and the cost of acquiring a new AR10 for military use (MIL SPEC, DT/OT, etc) are comparable. I guess it comes down to having a combat proven M14 versus the relatively combat untested AR10.

Why not a SCAR 17? The first obvious answer is cost. I bought a "loaded" M1A new for $1400 not long ago. I see GunsAmerica selling SCAR 17 for just under $3,000. I don't believe SCAR is better for MY MISSION... certainly not $1,000 better.

I noticed that people have commented on the ability of weapons to accommodate add-on devices. I would note that when I was in Iraq you could always tell the WARRIORS from the REMF's by their weapons. The clean, unwrinkled uniform, shiny boot REMF crowd always had lights, laser illuminators, laser spots, scopes, wizzers, and gizmos on their weapons. The racoons, the REAL WARRIORS, who had worn eye protection on the dusty trail and were covered in dust from head to toe except for their eyeballs, had nothing but a CCO on their weapons. I have never been into gizmos, most of which just act as target beacons for bad guys.

So my choice is an M1A. I also recommend a backup for every weapon "just in case". I chose a Saiga 308, essentially an AK chambered in 308, without a pistol grip. It is relatively cheap ($500) and shoots very well. I may buy an AR10 in the future, but that is dependent on winning the lottery or having a rich uncle name me in his will.

If you do think you will be involved in MOUT/MOBUA type operations at close range, I suggest you also acquire a shotgun. I prefer the Mossberg 930 SPX (semi-auto, 7+1, Pica Rail, and more) with a Mossberg 500 in "cruiser" configuration (with folding stock) as a backup.

We all need a sidearm too, of course and I prefer a 40cal... well... we'll leave that discussion for another time.
best post on here I've seen hands down. Love the detail, great explanation, great points. That pretty much covered all the scenarios. The only thing I would say is that I would use one universal calibre just in case. I would use everything in 308, A little heavier maybe but if needed ill tuff up just like we all would if we had to. Just an opinion. I'm pretty found of a universal round, mostly because if it's come down to I have 200 rounds for this gun but 50 for this one, do I still need to use both? Problem solved with a universal round. I'm glad someone took the time to post such great points.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:13 AM   #237
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Just wants to say thanks for everyone who participated in this thread in a positive manner. I truly enjoy all the info, and different point people are coming up with. Keep it going don't let this thread end!!!!

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Old 12-28-2011, 12:18 PM   #238
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Does anyone know if bullpups are a better design than traditional design? I know it's all preference, but if they are worth while perhaps the kel tec rfb is worthy of mention. Kel tec is so so but I have heard many good things from this rifle.
My first issue with the bullpup is Length Of Pull.

Any measurement of accuracy is dependent on a good stance

and proper rifle posture. If I were working in a tight environment,

or backpacking extra weapons for others, a bullpup might

enter into consideration, but for me, they're just another

specialty weapon, one which has sacrificed accuracy

past 50 yards for the sake of convenience...

IMO, I would buy a Kel Tec more for it's

customer service than it's bull-pups.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:20 PM   #239
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Does armalite make the best ar10?
Obviously the original AR10.

I think we'd all like to see FN make a super-light copy...

To date, AFAIK, most AR10s (NOT an AR guy) are less

expensive "knock-offs", which are half the money,

but heavier, and less accurate...
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:44 PM   #240
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My opinion - if you can get past the price and the shortage of magazines (the latter issue will not last as FN is seeing to it they will have the shortage addressed in another month) is the SCAR17S.

Simple short stroke piston design, very light 7.9 pounds for a .308Win but in addition, very light felt recoil. Accurate and very easily to field strip and clean.

Am I going to carry this thing everywhere in a SHTF situation? Who knows, I hope it never happens as I will probably never even make it to my rifle but if I had to I know its lighter than other choices and easily up to any task I may personally put it through.

I have an M1A and the SCAR is almost 2 pounds lighter. I'm familiar with both weapon systems, I prefer the SCAR system.

Good luck in your decisions.

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