"BEST" AR, "BEST" Upgrades.... - Page 8
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Old 08-22-2008, 01:37 AM   #71
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Hey..who's everyone voting for?
I spent so much time preparing for the end of the world, I thought I would vote for the Anti-Christ and help usher in the Chaos, Mayhem and Anarchy - then I put all my taci-cool kit to good use...

JD
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Old 08-22-2008, 05:51 AM   #72
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Hey..who's everyone voting for?
McCain.

(Trying to kill this puppy quickly)
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:07 AM   #73
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Something else I don't see on the 'Tacti-Cool' and 'Cronic Paranoids' rifles...
A spirit level.

They will sink $800 or $1,000 in an optic, and not level the rifle before they fire so the optics center line is plumb with the bore center line.

Doesn't matter how much you pay for the optics, you aren't going to make a tack driver out of it until you get a level and learn to use it...

A level will teach you how to 'Address' the rifle.
("Address": the proper term for shouldering & gripping the rifle after you get into a braced shooting stance)

No excuses either, they make them for front sights, Weaver & Picatinny rails, and that mount right on the optics tubes.
Some optics (the ones intended for REAL shooters) include the spirit level inside the optics, handy and out of harms way, plus you will NEVER forget it at home that way.
Umm, apparently you miss the point of an auto-loading, intermediate caliber rifle, like the AR-15, the STG-44 or the AK47. They were all designed to place multiple hits quickly onto a target at intermediate ranges, typically less than 300 yards, not be a “sniper rifle.” The Germans of WWII developed the concept, the Russians clearly understood it, and the Americans are just now getting the picture.

While the AR, and warfare in general, has changed significantly since the '60s, the purpose of the AR-15 stays the same: to make multiple hits, quickly, on multiple targets. It is not, and probably never will be, commonly deployed as a sniper rifle. Even the “Special Purpose Rifles” (18” heavy barreled rifles, with free-float tubes, match triggers, and moderately magnified optics, usually 1-4x magnification) and the M16A4 (20” heavy barreled rifles with free-float tubes, match triggers, and, typically, fixed 4x magnified optics) are designed to be deployed quickly. Using a spirit level does not allow this to happen.

Additionally, I have gone and reviewed all of my manuals on shooting again, and nowhere is “addressing” the rifle discussed....
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:15 AM   #74
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Something that is not ENTIRELY the shooters fault, but still makes me crack a grin is when a guy has a laser range finder in Yards, but is using optics graduated in Meters.

This is mostly due to the schizophrenic nature of the shooting education in this country.
The military uses sites/optics graduated in meters, but the troops train on ranges that are graduated in yards...

It also comes from thinking that European optics outperform American made optics...
If you think that, you have CLEARLY never used Leupold or Burris optics...
1.) The Army uses ranges set in meters, not yards. This tells me that you were a jarhead. All of the Marines I know, even today, when they have been out of the service for 15 years, can still tell me how many meters 600 yards is...

2.) Could it be possible that if someone has time to lase a target, then they also have time to convert yards to meters? My cell-phone does it very quickly.
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:20 AM   #75
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Mildot optics also make me chuckle...
Unless you are hunting humans, the Mildot reticle is virtually worthless.

I hunt ground hogs, prairie dogs, coyotes, and the occasional white tail deer with my rifles.
None of those translates very well over to Mildot...

I know some self appointed forum god is going to argue that a coyote is 36" long that equates to 57+95- the metric 5 add in the age of the neighbors beagle, or what ever gibberish...

The fact is, I prefer a 'Varmint' scope that has graduations for the length and height of the average coyote, not human...
Since I don't use my rifle to hunt with, I really have no idea what your babbling about. I also don't do much long-range, but I do seem to remember that a mil-dot scope is quite easy to use to estimate distance, even on targets that are not human. If you have a general idea on the size of your target, you can make them work. I am lacking in this skill, mostly because I don't see a need for shooting anything that far out, so perhaps someone else could counter your ramblings better.
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:21 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by ranger_sxt View Post
(20” heavy barreled rifles with free-float tubes, match triggers, and, typically, fixed 4x magnified optics) are designed to be deployed quickly. Using a spirit level does not allow this to happen.

Additionally, I have gone and reviewed all of my manuals on shooting again, and nowhere is “addressing” the rifle discussed....
Speaking of 20'' heavy barrels, you can get one in good condition for a great price- just click here

I just couldnt resist the urge to promote it
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:40 AM   #77
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So called 'Hunting' rifles, (not 'Varmint' rifles) with those target knobs sticking out there exposed to the world always make me cringe...

First off, with a hunting rifle, you don't have time to mess with a dozen adjustments...
If you are VERY lucky, you might get to change zoom or adjust for paralax... But not very often in white tail country!

I makes MUCH more sense to have short, protected adjustments and a fixed power optic with no paralax adjustment, or have the paralax adjusted and locked down for about 75 to 125 yards, depending on how thick the brush you are hunting in is...
Wait a second, I thought this rambling rant was about how you don't like people who use their AR15s differently than you do, not hunting. Oh well, I'll burst your bubbles here too.

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Those silly target 'Click' knobs are just going to get in the way of a good hunting rifle anyway...
'Clicks' mean you are restricted to 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 MOA adjustments...
I prefer a sliding scale with no 'Clicks' for hunting rifles.
No clicks means I can 'Fine Tune' my shots just the way I want them with no pre-determined windage or elevation deviation to one side or the other of my zero point...
And then you need to spend a significant amount of time returning your rifle back to your previous zero. While the sliding scale works well for one-time shots, you will need to re-zero your gun every time you shoot it. The clicks allow the shooter to return his gun back to where it came from, without having to guess.

Additionally, since every good shooter knows that 1 MOA equals 1” at 100 yards, 2” at 200 yards, 3” at 300 yards, et cetera they also know that ¼ MOA equals ¼” at 100 yards, ½” at 200 yards, ¾” at 300 yards and so on. Acceptable accuracy for most hunting applications was defined by Jeff Cooper as an 8” dinner plate, approximately the size of the “boiler-room” of whitetail deer. At whatever distance you fail to keep 5 shots within that 8” plate, that was your longest range that you should engage targets at. Given this standard, an 8” diameter circle, we can allow for 4” on either side. Using basic mathematics, this tells me the scope with ¼ MOA adjustments becomes inadequate at hitting said targets at 1600 yards! Using my cell-phone for the conversion, this is almost a mile away. Unless you are using a rifle chambered in .50 BMG or .338 Lapua, you are well beyond the ballistic capabilities to make a killing hit at that range. The bullet will have lost most of it's energy.

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
I'm trying to zero at my 'Average' range, which in hunting is usually different than 100 yards or 200 yards.
So those little 'Clicks' don't work for that very well.
How do you determine your “average” range? And those clicks will work fine, if you have a brain that's working, you can do a little bit of Pre-Algebra and figure it out, knowing that 1 MOA equals 1” at 100 yards...

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Since if I have a brain that's working, I have a reticle that allows for bullet drop and has a functioning range finding device built in...
Besides, if I've done enough shooting with that 'Hunting' rifle, I should be able to estimate the range to within 25 yards anyway...
No, you're lazy. You don't need a bullet drop compensator if you know what your hold-overs are. You don't need a range-finding device if you have any practice being in the field. I haven't been in the field for years, and I can still estimate ranges, without a device...
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Old 08-22-2008, 07:46 AM   #78
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When I was a kid growing up in a bend of the White River,
I though I could shoot...
I could out shoot all my peers,
I could hit ground hogs with a .22 WMR that other guys couldn't hit with a .222 or .223 or .243 and high powered optics...
I guided deer hunters and bird hunters, and when it was necessary, knocked down wounded game the 'City Boys' couldn't finish off.

I made pretty good money from the local farmers cleaning out the ground hogs from 'Garden' fields and pastures, and the local hog farmers and turkey farmers paid me for every coyote I could bag on their places.

I watched my grandfather knock down a white tail at 606 yards with a single shot from a sporterized Mauser re-barred in .30-06 using open iron sights, across a valley, in moderate wind.
He actually fired the rifle, turned before the deer fell, and told me to get the tractor (to get the deer).
The man was 62 years old when he made that shot while leaning against a tree...

He was a WWI veteran and he always said,
"The Marines taught me how to shoot...
The Germans taught me NOT to miss."
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? You used to be able to shoot, and your grandfather showed you up. This has been a long-recurring theme in the history of kids and mentors.
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:01 AM   #79
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In my opinion,
You should have to pass the Civilian Marksmanship Program or like course before you are allowed to own anything other than a rimfire rifle or shotgun.

There should be an ABSOLUTE REQUIREMENT you pass a CMP type program before being allowed to own a handgun of ANY kind.
1.) There is no passing a Civilian Marksmanship Program. The CMP does not offer classes. It is a competition based system...

2.) Again, I think I have a broken copy of the Constitution, because in mine, the Second Amendment says “...shall not be infringed,” not “...shall not be infringed, with a passing score of 70% or greater.”

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I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment,
No, you're not. You want people to have to pass a requirement to possess a firearm for their self-defense, or are owning guns because they think guns are fun. That is not what the 2nd Amendment was written for...

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I'm also a firm believer that there are too may untrained hacks out there that think firearms are a status symbol or collectors item and not a DEADLY SERIOUS tool with ramifications a mile and a half away in any direction of their location...
Agreed, but to demand that we have to get the government's permission to exercise a Creator-Endowed Right is not the answer.

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Guys that own firearms and don't own and use a gun safe bother me too.
Virtually all guns used in homicides are STOLEN.
If you buy a firearm, LOCK IT UP when you aren't actually HOLDING IT.[/B]
1.) Guys that haven't paid any attention to the changes in firearms usage since Christ was a Corporal bother me too. So I guess we're even.

2.) Can you cite a published, peer-reviewed article that backs up your statement?

3.) So you're saying that the pistol that is sitting in my holster, on my belt, on the pants that I'm wearing right now should be locked up? And the rifle that sits at the foot of my bed while I'm at home should be locked up as well? So, are you saying that if some axe-wielding maniac comes through my door, I should tell him “Hold on, Mr. Psycho. I need to open my safe to get my gun to shoot you?”
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:08 AM   #80
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Since you stood up to be counted...
I did 3 gun competitions (IPSC) for 17 years.
Never needed an optic, especially a $1,200 one.
When were you shooting 3-Gun? Because it hasn't been around for 17 years. IPSC and Cooper were still arguing about what sort of competition it should be in 1997.

If you had done 3-Gun, then you would know that the only way to be competitive now is to use an optic. Most people are starting to move more and more to an adjustable 1-4x optic with an illuminated red-dot. While there is still an iron sighted competition, the money and big sponsorships are in the open class...
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