"BEST" AR, "BEST" Upgrades.... - Page 6
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:52 AM   #51
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I can tell you I have the very light duty CAR stocks, soda straw 16" barrel and first gen iron sights...
It's very light and compact so I actually CARRY IT with me...
And the BEST AR is the one you have when you need it!

Back to 'APPLICATION, APPLICATION, APPLICATION'!

If you have the high dollar drum mag and it makes your rifle 'Illegal' in your area, TAKE IT OFF..

If you have a bayonet/bayonet lug and that makes your rifle illegal... TAKE IT OFF..

If folding stocks or collapsible stocks are illegal in your area.... TAKE IT OFF.

If 16 barrels are illegal, get an 18" or 20" or what ever is legal!
This isn't rocket science!
And your rifle does you NO GOOD AT ALL if it's in storage in the closet at home!
Umm, thank you Captain Obvious. Please show us where someone has been telling us to put illegal things on their gun...
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:57 AM   #52
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Rant
Rant
Application, Application, Application
Rant
--------------------------------
Bitch
Moan
Groan
"kit" isn't a real word
Rant
-------------------------------
Rant
Homemade alternator welder
Rant
You are all "mall ninjas" for having scopes
Rant
-----------------------------
Look familiar?

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Old 08-21-2008, 06:59 AM   #53
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Now, for you guys that must 'Accessorize'.
(Yes, I just said it! You have been 'Outed'...)

BUY BARBIE DOLLS INSTEAD OF FIREARMS!

For the rest of you,
LEARN THE BASICS!

In 16 Years as a firearms/small arms instructor in the military, and over 25 years as a civilian NRA certified instructor, I've NEVER seen any of the accessories dealers tell you the truth, and as the internet grew, I started seeing self appointed 'Experts' take over the forums and just parrot the crap the retailers have been spreading for so long....
While you have some point there, much of the accessories available have been vetted, both by people who are shooting at badguys, and by those who shoot competitively. The world has changed significantly since you were in the military, much of it in the realm of tactics and equipment that people are using. These accessories fill a need, and were often requested by Tier One Operational Groups (SOCOM).
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:03 AM   #54
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THE TRUTH IS...
YOU NEED TO LEARN TO SHOOT FIRST AND FOREMOST!

You need to learn to use basic, fixed iron sights.
You need to learn to use the firearm safely and efficiently.
You need to learn to use the firearm in all conditions you might encounter with it and plan for every foreseeable contingency.
You need to LEARN what the fire arm WILL, and WON'T do.
Here, you and I agree. People need to get quality training and shake out their equipment. Where I disagree, is how you are suggesting that people ignore things that will make their firearm work better in “all conditions you might encounter.” Since the world is dark for 50% of the time, it would make sense to me if we use some way to make it not be dark (lights). Since sometimes we need to make a long-range shot, an optic might be a good idea.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:08 AM   #55
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LEARN TO USE THE IRON SIGHTS!
An Army scout and part time buffalo hunter named Billy Dixon knocked an Indian off his horse at over 7/8 mile away with a .50-70 black powder rifle with open sights!

Alvan York killed over 35 Germans in one day during WWI with a .30-06 Springfield rifle and all of his shots were over 600 yards. May were head shots, with fixed open sights!

I watched a guy I've seen hit the bull regularly at 1,000 yard matches pass on a 400 yard shot hunting last year.
When I asked 'Why', he said he wasn't sure of his sights and didn't want to cripple the animal.
That guy knows how to shoot 1,000 yards, but also has the good sense to know when NOT to shoot.

Learn How To Use The Iron Sights, Work On Your Shooting, & Learn The Capabilities Of The Firearm...
Billy Dixon admitted in his memoirs that the hit he got was pure luck.

Now, regarding York: imagine how many kills he could have gotten if he were able to acquire a sight picture faster. That is what the red-dot optics are designed to do. They remove one of the things that people tend to concentrate on and need to line up vice iron sights.

Regarding your friend: good on him. That's responsible hunting. It is not, however, at all germane to the conversation at hand.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:10 AM   #56
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Back to APPLICATION, APPLICATION, APPLICATION...

If you only shoot 100 yards and less, you DO NOT need a $1,000 set of optics!

If you only get your rifle out once or twice a year,
You don't need a bull barrel, premium ammo or expensive optics, since you can't hit anything anyway.

Accurate shooting takes PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and all the expensive 'Toys' in the world aren't going to make up for poor stance, unbraced shooting positions, and lack of trigger control!

If the only thing you use your rifle for is hanging 'Accessories' on to show off/impress your friends, you probably shouldn't own a firearm...
Who the **** are you to determine how I spend my money? And I'm sorry, but I missed the part of the 2nd Amendment that said “...shall not be infringed, unless you are just showing off.”
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:18 AM   #57
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If, in fact, you regularly target shoot (at LEAST once a month), and you know the difference between a 'Bench Trigger' a 'Field Trigger' and a 'Military Trigger' then you might have a need for a more accurate barrel and a slicked up trigger.
No, not really. I know lots of people who can shoot well, but they don't know every tiny little bit of errata about firearms. Are you saying that knowledge is more important than skill?

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
If your 'Zero' point is 200 yards or more, then you might have a need for some serious optics.
So, if I zero for 100 yards, which is where most shooting takes place for me, but know my bullet drops, I can't have decent glass on my gun?

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
If your 'Average' shot is farther than 400 yards, then you might have a need for 'Premium' ammo.
Hmm, I'll have to tell my friends that shoot high-power that they are wasting their money. Since, if you look at the averages on one of their courses of fire, they only shoot to 380 yards.

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No one I know (military not withstanding) NEEDS a $700 optic with 1x magnification... That includes the police...
So if you have an 'Aim Point' on your AR, don't be surprised if I laugh at you...
Same for lights, lasers, front pistol grips, extra mounting rails, bayonets, battery holders, disco balls, fuzzy dice or pink ribbons...
You don't know many people do you? You can laugh all you want, but when we shoot an action course at night, and I beat you because I hung “gadgets” on my rifle (a red-dot scope, a flashlight and a vertical foregrip) then you can talk...
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:25 AM   #58
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Learn the basics, Balance, Bracing, Breathing, Sight Picture, Trigger Control & Follow Through.
Nothing else matters, and nothing else can help you if you can't do the basics...
I just reviewed my NRA Rifle Instructor Manual, and FM 3-22.9, MCRP 3-01A, Green Eyes, Black Rifles and The Art of the Rifle and none of them mention Balance nor Bracing as a fundamental. This brings serious doubts to my mind if you are actually an instructor...

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
Marksmanship IS NOT loading up on the latest fad sight, optic, light or mag.

Marksmanship IS NOT making one good shot every once in a while.

Marksmanship IS NOT loading up high capacity magazines and drenching the range in hopes you will hit a target, any target if you waste enough ammo...

Marksmanship IS being able to repeat your shots time after time after time in all weather conditions.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
Marksmanship IS KNOWING IN YOUR SOUL you can blow the heart out of that Mule deer at 500 yards, because you have PRACTICED this very shot at this very angle with these very bullets in this very rifle in these very same weather conditions...
Not thinking you can *MAYBE* hit the deer at 500 yards and *MAYBE* you will get lucky and it will die before it gets away...
And disagreed. Marksmanship is not about just about hunting. And anyone who even suggests shooting a mule deer at 500 yards with an AR-15 is an unethical hunter, and shouldn't be allowed a hunting permit...
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:33 AM   #59
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I ground hog hunted and prairie dog hunted with an AR-15 and shot an AR-10 in competition 35 years ago.
Don't think that every single time I took that black rifle out of it's case, people didn't snicker and sometimes outright laugh...

Don't think I didn't take a butt load of abuse when I cleaned the rifles at the lodge before we went prairie dog hunting...

By the end of the first day the jokes and snickering had stopped,
And usually by the end of the second day, the 'Old Timers' were asking questions and wanting to get a closer look, maybe squeeze off a few rounds...

And in case you all aren't familiar with firearms from that era, some guys were using .22 WMR & .218 Bee rounds, while others were using .220 SWIFT and 6MM Mag. to hunt with!

No one, and I mean absolutely NO ONE used an auto loader for the first two years I went west to prairie dog hunt.
On the third year, one guy had a Ruger Mini 14, and that was the only other auto loader I saw for may years...
Congratulations, we won't confuse you for Jim Zumbo.

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
*IF* you put in the hours at the gun range to learn proper procedures,
And
*IF* you have a need, like hunting or long range targets, for a better barrel and some 'Slicking Up' of the action and trigger, then I can't fault you for it.
That is just going back to the three basic rules...
APPLICATION, APPLICATION, APPLICATION!
Thank you for your approval. Can you post your phone number so I can ask your permission before I buy something?

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
*IF* you think a optic of any kind is going to make you a better 'Shooter', you are SADLY MISTAKEN!
No, you are mistaken, and you need to get out of the 1980s. Optics help significantly in achieving a sight picture.

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*IF* you think there is any need in the world for a gob of accessories on any AR, again, you are SADLY MISTAKEN!
Hmm, so if I need to shoot someone in my house at night, I should ask him to come back in the day so I can see him? Or should I just shoot anyone who comes through the door, be it a bad-guy, my brother, my roommate, or my girlfriend?

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
*IF* you think that owning an AR, With or Without a Gob of 'Paste On' accessories will make you more of a man or braver, then you are not only Sadly Mistaken, you need serious and intensive treatment from a mental health professional!
And if you think that rambling posts about “the good ol' days before the internet, when men were real men, women were real women, and highly intelligent shades of blue were real highly intelligent shades of blue,” makes you more of a man, or a better shooter, or whatever, you need some serious mental health treatment yourself...
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:44 AM   #60
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As for the 'Match Triggers' everyone keeps pushing...

Here is a 50¢ alternative that works great.
I've used this since the mid 70's, and I'm surprised that some of the AR 'Experts' don't know about it or haven't told about it...

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/firearms/ar-15/ar08.html
I am aware of that one. However, it is significantly more time-consuming, and it still does not give me as crisp of a trigger pull as many of the drop-ins that are available (Rock River Arms, and Timney to be exact).

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Originally Posted by AR Hammer View Post
As for 'Optics',
85% of the 'Scopes' (Telescopic Sights, but what are a few misnomers between friends...) are canted one direction or the other.

This is bad.
Look at the face of a watch...
See the 1 minute mark?
That's 6° of cant, or for the slow guys in the class, 1 Minute OF ANGLE.

Most optics I see are out WAY more than 6°...

According to the Marine Corps long range rifleman's manual I was issued, that is a 1/2" miss at 100 yards, and a 55 inch miss at 1,000 yards.

The taller your 'Scope' center line is over the barrel center line, the more damage you are doing to your aim.
AR's are traditionally much higher centerline than the bolt action rifle that manual was written for.
1.) Ok, start a gunsmithing shop, and install scopes correctly. I'm sure that you will make a mint doing so.

2.) Umm, your manual is either wrong, or your pulling information out of your ass again. 1 MOA is 1” at 100 yards, not ½”.

3.) The high centerline is correct, but that is what zeroing the gun is for, and why it is critical to remember your sight offsets and hold-offs. In other words, learn to use your gun properly...
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