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Old 09-08-2013, 06:59 AM   #111
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... At under $1K, PSA is always tough to beat. Almost impossible. A bit more, and I start to like BCM and Daniel Defense...
Very hard to argue with this. I have an upper from each and can highly recommend them all. PSA gives you a lot for your money, the one thing I'd be wary of is they sell different grades of BCGs, so watch what you get. At the time I bought their upper last year I went with a BCM BCG ($20 more than PSA's at the time) which resulted in a very solid upper.

Each upper was pinned to lowers I had already built using quality parts. And it was that easy, assemble as you would after a field strip and you're done. Warranty? Yeah, I guess I have that but it's moot, each rifle works well. The best thing though, each rifle is configured the way I want with the parts I want.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:06 AM   #112
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you know anything about these? Just saw a new one for $980
Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine Centerfire Rifle
The Bushamster falls well short of a PSA configured the same. Compare specs and price.
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:10 PM   #113
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you know anything about these? Just saw a new one for $980
Bushmaster M4A3 Patrolman's Carbine Centerfire Rifle
I have come to the conclussion that you really don't know what u want. You are trying to short change your self by not listening to the people around here . You ask for the best factory AR for $1000 or less and people have provided you with choices but you continue to sway the other way. Good luck in your search. I can't help you any further that what I already have .
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Old 09-08-2013, 01:55 PM   #114
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I have come to the conclussion that you really don't know what u want. You are trying to short change your self by not listening to the people around here . You ask for the best factory AR for $1000 or less and people have provided you with choices but you continue to sway the other way. Good luck in your search. I can't help you any further that what I already have .

I dont minmd if the man keeps the discussion lively this way.

I do similar myself when I ask for advice form friends that as they give it, I throw things back and critically discuss it.

While this is annoying as heck to the advice giver, the resulting discussion helps me hammer out the nuances of the issue at hand.

This cna be very valuable to the advice seeker.

This is what the OP is doing and I dont mind.
He's the OP , so it's his tread.

Also look at all the traffic this thread has generated! .

Thats all good for our beloved forums
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #115
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I have come to the conclussion that you really don't know what u want. You are trying to short change your self by not listening to the people around here . You ask for the best factory AR for $1000 or less and people have provided you with choices but you continue to sway the other way. Good luck in your search. I can't help you any further that what I already have .
HA! if I knew what I wanted, I would not have made this post, think about that a little bit. I stated at the outset that I had read the primers, etc.

I started with some basics, I read the feedback I received. During the life of this post I have handled about 15 ARs at stores, which along with the comments that were made naturally influenced my decision. I went to other sources besides this forum and talked to 3 gunsmiths this past week.

First, no PSA completes to be had in my area. I will not purchase any rifle without handling and inspecting it first. That's just me. These must be good guns/parts because nobody has them to actually look at - no dealers listed in my area either per PSA website. Here's what I am going to do though - when I DO a build, I will do it with PSA components, at least upper and lower and maybe upgrade the BCG at some point. Maybe not

2nd, I realized that the carbine length was a better way to go given my intended use. I am used to the full-sized bolt action rifles and so it's about adjustment I believe.

3rd, I decided if I want a quality AR15 'out of the box' I probably need to spend more than $1000 - so I am looking at Colt LEs and the Sig Sauer M400. From what I understand both are excellent rifles.

You don't have anything better to do today than jump on this thread and tell me I don't know what I want? Really? REALLY?

thanks for the feedback
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:05 PM   #116
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If you've handled 15 ARs, gone to others sources and talked to three gunsmiths recently why not share your observations. What do you/they like, dislike about various brands, and configurations? Time to give back to the community!

The Colt LE6920 is a fine choice for around the $1100 mark. LE6720, if you want pencil. If you want a 16" midlength then we come back to BCM, DD and PSA.

The SIG M400 seems to be a better than average AR, looks nice during hands on inspection but I have not fired one. I gave some thought to it last year but too many compromises for me. (Builders get that way!) So I did another build with PSA and got the barrel maker, materials, profile, gas length I wanted, along with the BCG I wanted. And of course the lower, parts, receiver extension, buffer and stock I wanted. And furniture...

This is why I have no use for most complete ARs in the LGS, why settle for the bean counters' corner cutting configurations when you can have it all your way. Warranty? Buy quality parts in the first place and you'll be covered.

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Old 09-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #117
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The Colt LE6920 is a fine choice for around the $1100 mark. LE6720, if you want pencil. If you want a 16" midlength then we come back to BCM, DD and PSA.
Colt is overrated in my opinion. Please don't confuse the term 'overrated' with 'crap'. There are a lot of great Colts out there. I just think there are also a number of examples that aren't so hot and are skating on name recognition. It's a company that seems to dwell in a constant state of bankruptcy and has released some inconsistent products as a result. Many Colts are outstanding. Corners were cut on others. And you can generally do better when it comes to the gas system, BCG, and furniture for the same price ($1100+) as a 'factory' Colt. But there are a lot of people who love that name. I've shot several but have never owned one, so I guess that makes me relatively well-informed, but hardly an expert.

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The SIG M400 seems to be a better than average AR, looks nice during hands on inspection but I have not fired one.
There are various versions of the M400. Generally, it's a good light weight (7lb) ML rifle. Some are milspec, most are not. The parts, furniture, and BCG can vary greatly from one gun to the next. Most (if not all) do not have M16 BCGs. I believe the M400 barrels are primarily 16"/1:7/chrome lined FN barrels...basically the vanilla PSA barrel. So it's a good barrel. But I think there are M400's that equate to $1200 rifles, as well as many that amount to $700-800 worth of rifle, due to varying specs. Guess who sells most of the cheapies? Walmart, of course.

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Warranty? Buy quality parts in the first place and you'll be covered.
Agree 100%. AR warranties (especially with regard to complete vs build) often lure newbies into buying lesser products. Buy from a good company, and they'll generally stand behind their product/part. And in general, that part won't fail anyway. And it'll be easy to remedy regardless.

Again, we're playing Lego's here. I'm pretty bright, but my clear-cut intellectual weakness is that my mechanical inclination borders on remedial. Yet AR builds are easy for me...because they're just that simple. The real key is to develop a grasp for what parts you value, what combination of parts will work symbiotically, and knowing where to get great parts at fair prices. PSA and BCM are excellent resources in every regard. Quality can also be found at the right price with AIM Surplus and JoeBob Outfitters.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Quentin
If you've handled 15 ARs, gone to others sources and talked to three gunsmiths recently why not share your observations. What do you/they like, dislike about various brands, and configurations? Time to give back to the community!.
Ok here you go

- The Sig was the only one I handled including Colt that seemed perfectly matched between the upper and lower - no wiggle in either direction no wedges needed . ARs I looked at and inspected include: bushmasters, Stags, windham and rock island as well as Smith & Wesson.
- the Sig and Colt hand guards and stocks seemed most solid to be and fit me well
- not impressed with s&w

Gunsmith discussions, 1 one was a 'buy Colt or you are buying a copy' ; #2 told me anything I was looking at will outlast me and that lots of hard earned money gets wasted trying for the perfect build, 3rd guy told me that Sigs are highly accurate and have great barrels. Also the guy was a Windham fan

PSA gets good reviews everywhere on the net. As do many other brands. The one thing that is clear, just about every manufacturer has stepped up their game in this competitive market. I compare it to the entry level bolt action market, just about every new rifle can shoot MOA.

That's all I have for now, I will report back with pics and a range report when selection is made.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #119
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I've owned/built about 20 AR15's in the last couple years.

Most AR's are really good rifles. I had a DPMS Sportical (which literally qualifies as the cheapest of the cheap $500-700 variant), and it was a pretty good and accurate rifle.

The real issue for me is maximizing the quality I recieve for my money. In that regard, I pledge my allegiance (and $, time and again) to PSA, BCM, and Daniel Defense. There are other viable options, but this is where I've found my money treats me best.

Most ARs are quite good. It's just a question of whether you could have done way better for yourself at the same price.

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Old 09-08-2013, 06:19 PM   #120
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... Gunsmith discussions, 1 one was a 'buy Colt or you are buying a copy' ; #2 told me anything I was looking at will outlast me and that lots of hard earned money gets wasted trying for the perfect build, 3rd guy told me that Sigs are highly accurate and have great barrels. Also the guy was a Windham fan...
Kinda what I figured. Two wrongs and a half right. Odds are most gunsmiths recommend what they have in stock. Exactly what you'd expect from a salesman, which they are. On the other hand most of the advice here, good or bad, was given freely with no strings, no financial gain to the poster. The trick is to determine what's good and what's bad, from all sources. And you have to know yourself, which usually trips all of us up at times.

Most firearms you buy factory built because they're good proprietary designs that your research has led you to (over competing proprietary designs). The AR-15 family and a few other firearms designs are "in the public domain" and built to exacting industry standards. Parts from hundreds of sources are interchangeable with little to no hand fitting so you can buy the parts you want and plug 'n' play. Parts are not the same though, quality and configuration vary but they all tend to fit.

Anyway, buy a piece of crap, buy something configured wrong, buy something good, or buy/build the AR exactly right for you - it's up to you.

BTW, most folks screw up the first time because they didn't give enough thought to what they really need. It's too easy to panic or lose patience and settle for a rack gun.
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