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Old 06-16-2013, 07:30 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastmode986
Why dont our troops use something in 308??? I dont see any issues with 556 but why not 308? Its got more power...
It's to heavy to carry 308 rounds.180 rounds of 556 is heavy. The Modern solider needs to be light an move quickly
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:32 AM   #32
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Come on man for a rifle that's been in service for over 50 years its has done its job!! Yes there may be rifles that have more stopping power an have better distances but for military uses I believe it's the real deal. If there is a over all better rifle it would be in action!! Please share ur thoughts..
I am being humorous. I never said it was not a great rifle. I just can not wait to hear what others have to say. You opened a can of worms. AK lovers will disagree. SCAR and Bullpub owners might too. The original Armalite platform has continued to be improved throughout the years. The best German companies offer this platform. HK is used by the Seals. Germans are very practical people and would not bother will a failed platform. There are German clubs and competitions for AR owners. In battle, I would prefer the M4 over the M16. It is just an improvement of the original though. Hell I bought an AR myself because of the history and reliability of the M16.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/hera-arms-15th-dynamic-89676/

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/hera-arms-eotech-range-report-89680/
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:34 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by therewolf

I had guessed that since the info wasn't

offered, it wasn't available. Actually, I'm a little surprised

no bullpups were a part of the tests.
I respect that but all those rifle where build off the m16 platform!! Just think where we would be without the m16.
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:41 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jagermeister

I am being humorous. I never said it was not a great rifle. I just can not wait to hear what others have to say. You opened a can of worms. AK lovers will disagree. SCAR and Bullpub owners might too. The original Armalite platform has continued to be improved throughout the years. The best German companies offer this platform. HK is used by the Seals. Germans are very practical people and would not bother will a failed platform. There are German clubs and competitions for AR owners. In battle, I would prefer the M4 over the M16. It is just an improvement of the original though. Hell I bought an AR myself because of the history and reliability of the M16.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/hera-arms-15th-dynamic-89676/

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/hera-arms-eotech-range-report-89680/
Thanks for sharing!! An yes I agree that threw time there will be a better system but I think we all need to paid our dues to mr. Stoner an the original m-16!!
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:51 AM   #35
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Can u think of a rifle that over all out performs the m-16 platform?? I can't!!
The Beretta offering is pretty sweet.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:06 AM   #36
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I respect that but all those rifle where build off the m16 platform!! Just think where we would be without the m16.
So what would be wrong with a bullpup AR? With all due respect,

many countries are progressing towards the bullpup style for

it's many inherent design advantages.
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Old 06-16-2013, 08:28 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by therewolf

So what would be wrong with a bullpup AR? With all due respect,

many countries are progressing towards the bullpup style for

it's many inherent design advantages.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it but I don't see how it's better. Why use a system that doesn't offer enough to replace the the original
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #38
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Can u think of a rifle that over all out performs the m-16 platform?? I can't!!
there are many rifles that can outperform the AR platform. thing is the AR works well in a number of roles for the military. it's easily set up into different configurations for differents uses.

the AR platform is not the be all, end all rifle. it's just that it meets the needs of the military, and it is very adaptable. it happens to meet the criteria of the military for their requirements for a standard service rifle.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:02 PM   #39
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I'm OK with it as long as they don't choose Vulcan or their ilk to order replacement parts from. Most ground troops still have the M16A2's, which work well with the DI system if they are maintained. The problem I think most troopies have with it is when the armoror gets a DILLIGAS attitude when it comes to his part in the maintenance of the weapons. When I was stationed in combat arms units, we had armorors who didn't lift a finger on the maintenance, and it showed. The bolt would go in the carrier like the gas rings weren't even there, and it was nothing to have worn or missing extractor springs. The whole gun felt like everything on it was worn out. There were parts on it I knew were from the Vietnam war. I didn't know there was a such thing as higher maintenance on weapons until I was in the Reserves and became an AGR. Then I saw weapons being maintained. One of the con's of going with a piston AR such as the HK 416 is they have a large percentage of proprietary parts that will not take replacement parts from the M16/M4 platforms. From what I have read, such a low percentage of M4 parts are interchangable with the HK that we would have to introduce all new parts to the supply system. If you are going that route, we might as well just start with a new design of gun altogether.
I think the piston guns have a place in the Special Ops units, such as Seals, Green Berets, etc., where they have to have a better reliability ratio, and the barrels are shorter. They are also not as ingrained in our supply system as the regular grunts.
For the regular forces, it may be more cost effective and sensible to maintain the M16A2's in the system now than to go after every toy available.
I am with some of the posters, though, and beleive the numbers of what was needed were made up after the fact, to justify not giving the ground troops a new gun after the DOD has spent so much to give the flyboys their multibillion dollar stealth toys. Just my .02

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Old 06-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
I had guessed that since the info wasn't

offered, it wasn't available. Actually, I'm a little surprised

no bullpups were a part of the tests.
I've read that over 20 rifles were submitted for Phase 1 of the testing but most dropped out or were eliminated. Only the six mentioned completed Phase 2.

The KAC SR-15 and Colt 901 were pulled out because Phase 2 required proprietary info/specs to be released. S&W and Stag had entrants that were pulled. Don't know if any bullpups were entered. It's likely many rifles were pulled because it wasn't likely the military would dump their investment in the M16/M4 unless something new was significantly better.
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