Army Killed New Carbine Because It Wasn’t Twice As Reliable As Current M4 - Page 3
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion > AR-15 Discussion > Army Killed New Carbine Because It Wasn’t Twice As Reliable As Current M4

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2013, 12:39 AM   #21
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Tackleberry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,147
Liked 4983 Times on 2413 Posts
Likes Given: 1586

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastmode986 View Post
Why dont our troops use something in 308??? I dont see any issues with 556 but why not 308? Its got more power...
They used too...
__________________
It is not the Citizens duty to show loyalty to the Government... it IS the Governments duty to show loyalty to the Citizen
Tackleberry1 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 12:51 AM   #22
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,709
Liked 21994 Times on 12402 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastmode986 View Post
Why dont our troops use something in 308??? I dont see any issues with 556 but why not 308? Its got more power...
actually they did have the M14 in between the M1 Garand and the M16. it had the shortest time as the standard service rifle of only about six years IIRC. a lot of the decision to go to the M16 was logistics and politics. and IIRC, the Air Force was the first branch of the armed services to adopt the M16 as the standard service rifle.

there were lots of dicussions on the amount of ammo that could be carried due to it being a smaller cartridge. there were discussions on the 5.56mm caliber being smaller and faster and then they also argued that most battles would probably be fought at much shorter distances than before so a larger caliber wasn't really needed.
__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
Quentin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 01:05 AM   #23
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
robocop10mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Austin,Texas, by God!!
Posts: 10,315
Liked 2983 Times on 1554 Posts
Likes Given: 275

Default

The .308/7.62 X 51 IS more powerful. In fact, it is more powerful than necessary to kill an opponent. The excess power equates to more recoil, slower follow up shots, longer, more involved training, less ammo load out and of course, more expense.

__________________

In life, strive to take the high road....It offers a better field of fire.
"Robo is right" Fuzzball

robocop10mm is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 01:11 AM   #24
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
JonM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Rochester WI,Rochester WI
Posts: 18,025
Liked 5982 Times on 3130 Posts
Likes Given: 426

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill0084 View Post
This tells me that they weren't serious about the issue to start with.

3592 rds? I'd really love to know how they arrived at that number. For some reason I get the feeling it was one of those "It came to me in a dream" kind of standards. Maybe they pulled it off an odometer?
nope they werent because it was forced on them by a few people in congress wanting to spend our tax dollars on a problem that doesnt exist.

there is nothing better for landwarfare than the 556 atm. it is light easy to carry and the M16 just plain works well. there isnt no need to adopt a whole new platform spares training regime etc for a non issue.

until something comes along that is a true advancement in firearms (something that surplants gunpowder copper brass and lead...) the 556 and the m16 are more than good enough and adaptable enough to get it done.

3592 is double the average round count before a M16 has a stoppage.
__________________

"Gun control: The theory that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound." — L. Neil Smith

The problem with being stupid is you cannot simply decide to stop doing dumb things...

JonM is offline  
axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 01:33 AM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Quentin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,655
Liked 1069 Times on 752 Posts
Likes Given: 1073

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
actually they did have the M14 in between the M1 Garand and the M16. it had the shortest time as the standard service rifle of only about six years IIRC. a lot of the decision to go to the M16 was logistics and politics. and IIRC, the Air Force was the first branch of the armed services to adopt the M16 as the standard service rifle...
Very true, I was issued the M14 most of my time in the Army (1966-1969) except when I was in Vietnam. If I had gone in a few years earlier I would have been issued the M1 Garand. My brother went to basic training in 1969 and they trained with the M16 as the M14 was being phased out. I don't think he ever saw an M14 while he was in.

Typical Army at the time, I qualified at least three times with the M14 yet never qualified with the rifle I carried in Vietnam! At least we did get a chance to zero them.
__________________

______
The biggest issue with assembling an AR isn't so much getting the parts together right - it's getting the right parts together. You'll remember the quality of a gun long after you forget how much you paid for it.
________________________________________
US Army 1966-69, VFW Life Member, Retired Geek


Last edited by Quentin; 06-16-2013 at 01:35 AM.
Quentin is offline  
axxe55 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 01:36 AM   #26
The Apocalypse Is Coming.....
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 28,709
Liked 21994 Times on 12402 Posts
Likes Given: 53672

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
Very true, I was issued the M14 most of my time in the Army (1966-1969) except when I was in Vietnam. My brother went to basic training in 1969 and they trained with the M16 as the M14 was being phased out. I don't think he ever saw an M14 while he was in.

Typical Army at the time, I qualified at least three times with the M14 yet never qualified with the rifle I carried in Vietnam! At least we did get a chance to zero them.
and the M14 is still used today in some special units and for some specialized applications. IMO, the M14 is still fine rifle.
__________________
Axxe55 is offline  
Quentin Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 08:01 AM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Copeman60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 223
Liked 18 Times on 14 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trip286

Pass that pipe over here sweet cheeks, I want some of what your smoking.

Not saying it ain't great. I've used it myself, and have seen it go through **** that impressed the hell out of me, but greatest ever it ain't.

Best that the US has to offer to the troops in mass availability, at this moment, yeah. It is.
Can u think of a rifle that over all out performs the m-16 platform?? I can't!!
__________________
Copeman60 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 08:07 AM   #28
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jagermeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Germany
Posts: 6,814
Liked 3863 Times on 2306 Posts
Likes Given: 3233

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Copeman60 View Post
Can u think of a rifle that over all out performs the m-16 platform?? I can't!!
LOL. A bait question if I ever heard one. Let us see who bites.....
__________________
Jagermeister is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 08:18 AM   #29
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Copeman60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 223
Liked 18 Times on 14 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagermeister

LOL. A bait question if I ever heard one. Let us see who bites.....
Come on man for a rifle that's been in service for over 50 years its has done its job!! Yes there may be rifles that have more stopping power an have better distances but for military uses I believe it's the real deal. If there is a over all better rifle it would be in action!! Please share ur thoughts..
__________________
Copeman60 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2013, 08:21 AM   #30
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,698
Liked 2605 Times on 1481 Posts
Likes Given: 2004

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin View Post
I was wondering that too so looked them up.
The final six Individual (Improved) Carbine program contenders all were piston designs:

FN FNAC (SCAR)
Heckler & Koch HK416A5
Remington ACR
Adcor Defense BEAR Elite
Beretta ARX-160
Colt Enhanced M4

All in all, not a great day for the piston AR!

*** I edited the first post to include this information since it does belong there.
I had guessed that since the info wasn't

offered, it wasn't available. Actually, I'm a little surprised

no bullpups were a part of the tests.
__________________

Last edited by therewolf; 06-16-2013 at 08:24 AM.
therewolf is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Daddy wasn't there opsec Legal and Activism 2 02-16-2013 05:44 PM
Cambridge OH: it wasn't us usmc1978 Gun Shows 0 12-28-2012 12:08 AM
Wasn't sure where to put this,, The home range is done! truevil1313 DIY Projects 9 08-24-2012 07:18 PM
Current project: M44 Nagant Carbine Melium DIY Projects 20 08-01-2011 08:29 AM
Whatever did this, glad it wasn't me ALSGUN Revolver Handguns 13 08-03-2010 04:52 AM