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Old 05-01-2012, 01:02 PM   #41
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There seems to be so much talk about group size. "My AR shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yards," or "I'm 1 1/2 inches at 100yards." There's also the, "it's not junk it shoots 1 inch groups."

Accuracy is nice. We all want to know we can hit what we're shooting at.

Are we judging the quality of the AR by the groups it shoots? Does that seem odd to anyone?
This is like a Ford F-350 owner arguing towing capacity with a Camaro driver. The fact of the matter is a shooter who buys an AR-15 rifle for long range shooting or varmint hunting could care less about mag changes, or run and gun silhouette shooting from 7 yards, or whatever. The AR-15 rifle is used, much like a shotgun for multiple roles. It is therefore sold in different configurations to accommodate those different roles and their required needs.

You wouldn't go Quail hunting with a 34" full choked, single barreled Trap gun, anymore than you would go on a South Dakota Prairie Dog shoot with an iron sighted 16" M-4 set up for a weekend ninja shoot. 2 different guns for 2 completely different purposes. The "fact" the AR-15 was originally designed as a battle rifle means no more than a German Mauser that was designed for much the same, then converted into a $4,000.00 hand built hunting rifle custom stocked and engraved for it's owner.

For shooters who long range varmint hunt with the AR-15, or compete in 600 yard high power competition, accuracy is paramount. If your rifle doesn't have it, it is useless, pure and simple. If your needs require hitting an animal you can barely see at 400 yards without a 16X quality optic, the latest Chrome lined upper from Run & Gun Industries, is of absolutely no use to you. Much the same as a barrel that has had 31,000 rounds through it, and would look like the surface of the Moon if anyone took the time to look at it with a bore scope. Again, if your blasting away at chest size targets from 25 feet away, it doesn't matter as long as the weapon goes bang, and something manages to fly out the end of the barrel.

To long range competition target shooters, varmint hunters, as well as hunters who have adapted the AR action as a base to build their larger caliber hunting weapons on, what the AR-15 rifle "started out as" means little to nothing. Much like the old battlefield Mauser that was stripped for it's action, in an effort to build something more suitable for it's use in a non combat role, where most all of the ammunition in this country is shot at anyway.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:07 PM   #42
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Read other posts before posting and you'll save a lot of time and bandwidth.

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Old 05-01-2012, 01:46 PM   #43
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i think everyones idea of the perfect AR would be different, some are after accuracy, some reliability, some are after adaptability. some are after an AR with all these traits. i see what MikeJ is saying that some measure an AR based on accuracy, some measure on relibility. i think a person has to assess what needs are important to them, what they expect from it and what it's intended purpose is, then buy or build accordingly. some people just want to buy an AR and go shooting and are limited by what's available in relation to how much they can afford. there are plenty of makers of AR's to fill these peoples needs. some people just don't have the time, or the ability or even the want to, to build an AR. now if a person has the desire to build an AR, the possibilities are endless, with a quality rifle put together much cheaper than one factor built. a person that wants an AR needs to make decisions based on his or hers own personal needs and wants and their intended use.

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Old 05-01-2012, 01:52 PM   #44
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i think everyones idea of the perfect AR would be different, some are after accuracy, some reliability, some are after adaptability. some are after an AR with all these traits. i see what MikeJ is saying that some measure an AR based on accuracy, some measure on relibility. i think a person has to assess what needs are important to them, what they expect from it and what it's intended purpose is, then buy or build accordingly. some people just want to buy an AR and go shooting and are limited by what's available in relation to how much they can afford. there are plenty of makers of AR's to fill these peoples needs. some people just don't have the time, or the ability or even the want to, to build an AR. now if a person has the desire to build an AR, the possibilities are endless, with a quality rifle put together much cheaper than one factor built. a person that wants an AR needs to make decisions based on his or hers own personal needs and wants and their intended use.
Reason I put reliability as number one? You may have a tack driver, but you can't drive tacks if the thing chokes every time you pull the trigger.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:58 PM   #45
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Reason I put reliability as number one? You may have a tack driver, but you can't drive tacks if the thing chokes every time you pull the trigger.
i agree with this and i personally would rather have one that goes bang everytime i pull the trigger with acceptable accuracy. if mine hits consistently 3-4" at 100 yards and is reliable, i'm a happy camper and that rifle fulfills it's needs for me. i have bolt actions for precision shooting, and i didn't buy my AR for precision shooting.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:23 PM   #46
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i think everyones idea of the perfect AR would be different, some are after accuracy, some reliability, some are after adaptability. some are after an AR with all these traits. i see what MikeJ is saying that some measure an AR based on accuracy, some measure on relibility. i think a person has to assess what needs are important to them, what they expect from it and what it's intended purpose is, then buy or build accordingly. some people just want to buy an AR and go shooting and are limited by what's available in relation to how much they can afford. there are plenty of makers of AR's to fill these peoples needs. some people just don't have the time, or the ability or even the want to, to build an AR. now if a person has the desire to build an AR, the possibilities are endless, with a quality rifle put together much cheaper than one factor built. a person that wants an AR needs to make decisions based on his or hers own personal needs and wants and their intended use.
very true , if you want a target rifle to compete with dont go buy a 14.7" barrel and expect to keep up with the people using 20-24" match grade barrels . if you wanting to go out and shoot plates @ 200 yards it will be fine . You have to think about what your intentions of using it for . I have a 7.5" barrel in the works just waiting on my tax stamp to come back , intentions for it will be CQ home defense and trying to get in a couple carbine classes using it . My buddy has almost the same setup and it shoots 2-3" groups @100 standing, off hand with a RDS out of a 7.5" barrel . I wouldnt have expected it to be that tight of groups with that short of barrel but it really impressed me enough to jump thru all the hoops to build one and pay for the stamp, next item on the list is the suppressor for it . Wow talk about expensive
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:28 PM   #47
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I find it amazing that we can even have this discussion about a 50 year old military design. I doubt Mr. Stoner had long range shooting or varmint hunting in mind when he dreamed it up. Few firearms are this versatile or as easily customized. I would call it the 1911 of the rifle world and won't be surprised to see it still in use on its 100th birthday!

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Old 05-01-2012, 06:51 PM   #48
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I agree, the fact that we are talking positively about it's performance speaks well of its design. I know plenty of fellow soldiers that have their own AR15 that shoot quarter size groupings at 50 yards no problem, and consistently hit in center mass on a 300 yard targets

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