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Old 04-29-2012, 03:10 PM   #11
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4 years in the Marine Corps. One failure to eject with the M16A2. I was a SAW gunner the whole time, but I still used the M16 series in training quite a bit.

The only guns I saw malfunction regularly were the ones that were in poor repair, worn or Frankensteined.

Now that may not be saying much in comparison to the civilian market AR's, but I'll trust it. The platform is, IMHO, reliable.

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Old 04-29-2012, 03:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJK View Post
I have always found it strange that people will defend their ARs reputation by stating it's group size or it's prowess from a vice.

I just needed some clarity as my head was about to fall off my neck from the constant left to right movement.
i agree with what your saying and it makes sense. if it's dead on accurate and will put all the rounds into one ragged hole but has reliability problems or doesn't function properly, then it's not a very good firearm, regardless of it's accuracy.

i would rather have one that did 2" groups at 100 yards, that functioned perfectly everytime i pulled the trigger over one that failed miserably that had had pinpoint accuracy when it did work!
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:36 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
i agree with what your saying and it makes sense. if it's dead on accurate and will put all the rounds into one ragged hole but has reliability problems or doesn't function properly, then it's not a very good firearm, regardless of it's accuracy.

i would rather have one that did 2" groups at 100 yards, that functioned perfectly everytime i pulled the trigger over one that failed miserably that had had pinpoint accuracy when it did work!
Good point, but in the same token a rifle that shoots 5-6 inch groups at 100 yards regardless of reliability is not a very good firearm either. If you can't hit what you aim at reliability is means very little.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:40 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BenLuby View Post
Reliability, durability, accuracy, ease of maintenance are my order or importance.
I think many of us fall in this camp. We may never be in combat but want to know our AR could be counted on if that very bad day ever happened. Now for benchrest and target guns, no doubt people will give up some reliability to achieve tighter groups. No right or wrong answer that fits everyone, we have to choose the right path, or better yet have more than one AR!
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:14 PM   #15
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My standard might be a bit simplistic, but I consider two factors abve all others.

1. Can I make consistent "head shots" out to 200-250 yards?

2. Does it go "bang" every time I press the trigger? EVERY time?

If the answer to these questions is yes, all other sins are forgiven.

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Old 04-29-2012, 07:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus
My standard might be a bit simplistic, but I consider two factors abve all others.

1. Can I make consistent "head shots" out to 200-250 yards?

2. Does it go "bang" every time I press the trigger? EVERY time?

If the answer to these questions is yes, all other sins are forgiven.
In reality, everything we talk about when we reference the quality of a firearm boils down to those two points.

When we talk about using the highest quality materials, it's to make sure it goes bang and shoots accurately every time.

When we talk about the proper fit and lowest tolerances for machined parts, it's to make sure it goes bang and shoots accurately every time.

When we discuss the manufacturers quality control, it's to make sure the guns they produce have the highest chance of going bang and shooting accurately every time.

Everything leads back to those two points, they are the cornerstones of "AR Quality".
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
My standard might be a bit simplistic, but I consider two factors abve all others.

1. Can I make consistent "head shots" out to 200-250 yards?

2. Does it go "bang" every time I press the trigger? EVERY time?

If the answer to these questions is yes, all other sins are forgiven.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd_ View Post
In reality, everything we talk about when we reference the quality of a firearm boils down to those two points.

When we talk about using the highest quality materials, it's to make sure it goes bang and shoots accurately every time.

When we talk about the proper fit and lowest tolerances for machined parts, it's to make sure it goes bang and shoots accurately every time.

When we discuss the manufacturers quality control, it's to make sure the guns they produce have the highest chance of going bang and shooting accurately every time.

Everything leads back to those two points, they are the cornerstones of "AR Quality".
Both posts, very well put
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJK
There seems to be so much talk about group size. "My AR shoots quarter sized groups at 50 yards," or "I'm 1 1/2 inches at 100yards." There's also the, "it's not junk it shoots 1 inch groups."

Accuracy is nice. We all want to know we can hit what we're shooting at.

Are we judging the quality of the AR by the groups it shoots? Does that seem odd to anyone?
If someone wants an AR for shooting prairie dogs at 200 yards, they will want that kind of the accuracy. They probably will not care if it will shoot any ammo they put into it, they may even reload a round just for that gun. If the rifle is for carbine courses or SHTF extreme accuracy or ammo choice may not matter as much. Some may even be looking for both. Reguardless, a quality rifle should be reliable with the ammo one chooses for it. Thats the great thing about the AR, you should be able to find on that fits your intended porpose.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky17 View Post
If someone wants an AR for shooting prairie dogs at 200 yards, they will want that kind of the accuracy. They probably will not care if it will shoot any ammo they put into it, they may even reload a round just for that gun. If the rifle is for carbine courses or SHTF extreme accuracy or ammo choice may not matter as much. Some may even be looking for both. Reguardless, a quality rifle should be reliable with the ammo one chooses for it. Thats the great thing about the AR, you should be able to find on that fits your intended porpose.
In SHTF scenario's is when you want the billy goat gun that eats steel and brass equally well, because at that time, you may not have the luxury of your favorite round.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLuby

In SHTF scenario's is when you want the billy goat gun that eats steel and brass equally well, because at that time, you may not have the luxury of your favorite round.
Exactly, everyones wants and needs in an AR are different. If I have a 24" bull barrel I'm not likely to feed it Tula. Going to run and gun with a 16" chrome lined barrel, I'm probably not going to spend weeks working up the perfect handload.
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