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2ndamendmentarms 03-11-2012 04:49 AM

Ar 15 scope help red dot vs 4x
Hello guys. I am having trouble picking between a red dot and a low power 4 x or acog style scope. I want a good close quarters defense rifle. But I want to be able to reach out to 200 yards or so. I really want a scope over a red dot but I Dnt like how long it takes me to acquire a target close range. Just wanted to get some input. I also thought it might be ok to have a 4 x scope and back up flip up sights mounted at 1oclock so I have both. What do you experts think. Thx again

JonM 03-11-2012 05:02 AM

Im no expert but dangerous game hunters have been using 4x scopes for decades.

There is a technique that with a litttle practice becomes second nature. Shoot with both eyes open. As the rifle moves quickly the eye not looking through the scope sees everything unmagnified when you settle on a target the xhairs will appear. With practice its stupid fast.

Its called the binden aiming concept. He was just thefirstto quantify it recently but snipers and hunters have been doing for as long as magnifying rifle scopes have existed.

2ndamendmentarms 03-11-2012 05:10 AM

Even with a 4 x you can shoot with both eyes open. Thought it was too high powered for under 25 yrds. Most of my shooting is done over 25 yds. But I want to be able to defend my family and self inside a house or under 25 yrds as well. And be able to get on target before the bad guy does

2ndamendmentarms 03-11-2012 05:14 AM

Which is best for urban combat. Does anybody know what our military uses

ShagNasty1001 03-11-2012 05:18 AM

Trijicon ACOGs are amazing. I'm about to put one on my AR. They're bullet compensated out to I thing 800 yards. The one I'm looking at is the TA11F in a 3.5x35

AgentTikki 03-11-2012 05:18 AM

First off welcome!

I personally have fun at the local range banging steel at 200 and 300 yards with ball ammo and an unmagnified red dot with a 4 moa dot, standing free hand and when I get tired on a rest. Its fun, and with a little practice not hard. I've met some amazing shooters that can easily better me with iron sights at the same ranges.

Now if you wanna drop $2700, Premier's W8 (V8?) is your any absolutely amazing peice of glass that will do 1x-3x on a 2nd focal plan as a 5 moa red dot and 3x-8x the reticle changes to a illuminated first focal plane crosshairs. That's a truly awesome concept! If that's a little over budget look at other 1x-4x variable scopes lke the Nikon 223 series with big reticles for faster acquisition and a little magnification to get you out to a bit farther.

Here's the trade off your gonna have to consider (besides price). Reticle size: bigger is faster but less precise, smaller is more precise but slower. Weight: lighter is faster, heavier slower. Most 1-4x will weigh about as much as a red dot with a magnifier.

In all honesty, I don't think that you need magnification to get to 200 yards, unless you going for precision bench shooting. Consider a rds or hws with a flip to the side 4x magnifier that you can remove also!

lrchops 03-11-2012 05:28 AM

If you want a close quarters entry gun, don't focus on your 200yds. You are defeating your purpose. Most shooting occur within 25 yds. or far less. A close quarters rifle is an offensive firearm used both eyes open in close proximity to the target. You will be well suited with an Aimpoint or Eotech and good too 100 yards. Rare that you will ever have to shoot anyone beyond 100 and 100 is pushing it big time! Especially in an urban environment. If you want 200 yard capability, move up to a scoped sniper rifle and I use the term sniper loosly!! Snipers have spotters and are trained for various environmental conditions. When you start reaching out beyond 100 yards, you are out of the realm of a close quarters entry rifle and you lose your two eye open scan capability. that is why snipers have support. I am no sniper, but I do have much experience with tactical entry, building clearing, close quarters shootings, and highly stressful multi distractional encounters and stand off's. You need two rifles my friend!

AgentTikki 03-11-2012 05:34 AM

JonM just reminded me of a techinque some people use with acogs for up close and personal ranges, keep both eyes open and close the forward cover of your sight. It makes for pretty fast acquisitions tho not the most accurate technique.

2ndamendmentarms 03-11-2012 07:57 AM

Thank you all for the insight. It is much appreciated. I am going to go with a good red dot system instead of a 4 x. As you guys said I have my rem 700 for the long range work. Look forward to being a member of this site. And thank you all for you immediate responses and kindness

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