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Old 10-11-2011, 04:40 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by axxe55

DI gas system has been in use for over 40 years, the military and LEA still use it. the gas piston system has the advantage of being cleaner, but at a cost. you will most likely have to buy a conversion kit (about $400-700) and install it. this is on top of what you will pay for the rifle. so your $1000 budget has been blown. so now you are in the range of $1400-1700 into your rifle. cleaning supplies should be kept stocked just like ammo, food and water.
False. Rainer arms has the adams arms piston for 279. That said. I'd save a bit more and go with a rifle that comes standard piston. LWRC, Adams arms full upper, adcor, pws, spikes piston...
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:48 AM   #22
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Than you. I was almost set on a piston system, but I feel you are correct. I never thought of finding parts like that. It seems to me that most people use DI systems, and finding parts would be much easier. Especially if military and police use DI systems. Thank you for the input.
The parts thing is so dumb. In a combat scenario you will just grab gun that functions and go. You won't carry around 2 guns, waiting to rip them apart to save yours.

As far as Piston, it puts **** in places that are less of a threat to function (ie under the handguards). I rarely if ever lube my piston guns, they don't need it, because the bolt doesn't get hot. Moreover I haven't cleaned my bold carrier in 500rds and I have still never cleaned my star
Chamber after about 2k in my piston gun. That would never happen on a DI gun. And I am in the military, and have spent countless ours cursing the DI system.
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Old 10-11-2011, 04:50 AM   #23
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I think axxe55 made a good point, even if you can find a piston conversion kit for less than he stated. Using a good DI AR as a base you would blow a $1000 budget real quick. In most applications a quality DI will outperform a piston AR so much better to put the extra bucks into the rifle, not a new operating system.

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Old 10-11-2011, 04:55 AM   #24
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The parts thing is so dumb. In a combat scenario you will just grab gun that functions and go. You won't carry around 2 guns, waiting to rip them apart to save yours.

As far as Piston, it puts **** in places that are less of a threat to function (ie under the handguards). I rarely if ever lube my piston guns, they don't need it, because the bolt doesn't get hot. Moreover I haven't cleaned my bold carrier in 500rds and I have still never cleaned my star
Chamber after about 2k in my piston gun. That would never happen on a DI gun. And I am in the military, and have spent countless ours cursing the DI system.
We don't have to be talking a combat situation. The DI AR is a commodity item and parts can be found from many sources. The piston designs are proprietary and there will be a shakeout over the next ten years leaving many designs as orphans. Finding proprietary parts will be a problem when the company no longer supports its earlier designs.

ETA: DI guns can do just fine running dirty. Google the reports of Pat Rogers' BCM Filthy 14 - 44,000 rounds with very little cleaning and one bolt replacement and a couple extractors. BCM used to have a link to a magazine article on that AR but it's dead now.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:07 AM   #25
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maybe being from a different generation, my father taught my brother and i to clean our firearms after shooting them. i remember getting home from the range and helping dad take apart the guns and him showing us how to clean them. that has stuck with me to this day. i know that anything mechanical, that has moving parts can fail, but IMO, a failure in a firearm, due to negligence in cleaning is unacceptable. whether i shoot five rounds or five hundred rounds, when i'm finished shooting, i clean my firearms. so whether i owned a DI or piston type AR, my cleaning regimen would be the same. after shooting clean the rifle. now how anyone else does or doesn't clean their firearms is none of my business, but i am just relating to how i treat mine. i have a sizeable investment in my collection of firearms, and it just strikes me as foolhardy to spend money on a firearm and not maintain it. would you drive your car for thousands of miles and not change the oil? or check the brakes and tires? or do you just wait until something breaks than fix it? i would rather be proactive than reactive. i have preached for years, that maintenance is always cheaper than repair.

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Old 10-11-2011, 03:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airbornedevil View Post
The parts thing is so dumb. In a combat scenario you will just grab gun that functions and go. You won't carry around 2 guns, waiting to rip them apart to save yours.

As far as Piston, it puts **** in places that are less of a threat to function (ie under the handguards). I rarely if ever lube my piston guns, they don't need it, because the bolt doesn't get hot. Moreover I haven't cleaned my bold carrier in 500rds and I have still never cleaned my star
Chamber after about 2k in my piston gun. That would never happen on a DI gun. And I am in the military, and have spent countless ours cursing the DI system.
If you're having problems w/ your DI you need a new armorer. What's your MOS?

I'm at 2k+ in one of my DI guns and have yet to clean it other than a quick wipe down. Granted it's of extreme high quality but it's still running strong and accurate.

I'd rather lube occasionally and have parts available than not have to lube as much and own a firearm w/ not parts support.

And don't forget the added weight of a piston system.

Quentin puts it into perspective well. Check out the Filthy 14.
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Old 10-13-2011, 04:51 AM   #27
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So i think I'm going to try and build my own from parts. How's DPMS for internal parts, and Stag Arms for the barrel?

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Old 10-13-2011, 05:39 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by WhaleNoises View Post
So i think I'm going to try and build my own from parts. How's DPMS for internal parts, and Stag Arms for the barrel?
You would be better served going in a different direction as far as your parts selection is concerned.

From the manufacturers you listed price sounds like a deciding factor or at least one of a number of factors. As of right now PSA is offering nice build kits at very reasonable prices. You can get a kit w/ everything minus lower receiver or lower built kits w/ everything minus lower then add a complete upper and a lower receiver. PSA has been greeted well on many forums ranging from hobbyists trying to maintain and upgrade their skill set like myself to guys who make a living w/ their AR.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:34 AM   #29
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I also have heard good things about PSA, WhaleNoises. On a budget they probably give you the biggest bang for the buck.

Glad to see you joined Boiseshooters.com. I think you'll meet guys at the Nampa range who can help out. You might talk to Jeff at Sawtac.com (up on Chinden Road), he's very helpful and probably can get things you need at a good price. At least look at his lowers and he carries Daniel Defense LPKs for about $70. He has good prices on VTAC slings and PMAGs too. Nice thing is you don't have to wait on UPS.

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Old 10-13-2011, 07:53 AM   #30
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Thank you for they advice guys. Price is a definite decided factor for me. I have a small family, and a sun with medical issues, so its not possible for me to put much money into a rifle. It will also take me a year or two, so I have more time to study manufatures. I'm sorry if I seem niave, but I have a hard time determining quality manufactures. I read that the Navy Seals use DPMS, so I assumed that their price range was a good base line. So I just went up from there with brands advertised in my AR-15 magazines.

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