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-   -   AR-15 Brand (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/ar-15-brand-49585/)

WhaleNoises 10-10-2011 05:39 AM

AR-15 Brand
 
I'm looking at getting my first AR-15, and I know at this point I want it in 5.56/.223 and I'm pretty set on a 16" barrel and I want a gas piston system. The other thing is I will be highly customizing it. So it needs a flat top for sights like an A3 upper. My budget is around $1000 and I have no clue on a brand. I have found that the brand image seams to really be effecting my decision as well. I don't want colt because of the horse and I do like Bushmaster because of the snake, but I've heard bushys arnt very good rifles. Any suggestions?

mjkeat 10-10-2011 05:52 AM

My suggestion is for you to do some research and some serious reconsideration of what's important. You're basically passing up one of the best ARs on the market for one of the worst over a roll mark.

Second Id suggest purchasing an AR and shooting a couple k rounds through it before "highly customizing" it. Though adding things is fun an AR is not some import tuner w/ neon lights and annoying exhaust.

Lastly I'd recommend you bypass the piston system for a DI. As an owner of multiple ARs I prefer the DI. Its balance and overall weight is much better. There's a reason most men who use their AR for a living prefer DI.

As far as brand there are a couple who have good reputations. In no order; BCM, Spikes, PSA, Daniel Defense, KAC, LMT, and Colt. I might be forgetting one.

You should be able to find a quality AR for $1k as long as you avoid some of the low end ARs. Meaning once you begin to learn the weapon system you'll quickly want to replace inferior vital parts for the ones you should have purchased in the first place costing you more in the long run.

WhaleNoises 10-10-2011 05:54 AM

One other thing is I don't want to go to cheap. I like DPMS but they seem too inexpensive. I played with a cupple in a pawn shop, and I couldn't get 3 out of 4 of their DPMSs to charge. I don't know if it was me or the guns but because I could charge one of them it makes me think it was the guns.

WhaleNoises 10-10-2011 06:08 AM

I think some of the reason I don't want a colt is the stories of nam and every one I've seen don't have simple take down bolts. The last one I saw required 2 different screw drivers to do a field strip. With the gas piston, I want it to be as reliable as possable. I want an AR for the off chance of a SHTF scenario. So there is a chance that it won't get cleaned all the time, and I've hard the piston systems are cleaner. One other thing is I've been resurching for over a year. All I own is a Ruger 10/22 and that took considerable reasurch. I also don't have the cash to buy a gun and change my mind on it.

Axxe55 10-10-2011 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhaleNoises (Post 597852)
I'm looking at getting my first AR-15, and I know at this point I want it in 5.56/.223 and I'm pretty set on a 16" barrel and I want a gas piston system. The other thing is I will be highly customizing it. So it needs a flat top for sights like an A3 upper. My budget is around $1000 and I have no clue on a brand. I have found that the brand image seams to really be effecting my decision as well. I don't want colt because of the horse and I do like Bushmaster because of the snake, but I've heard bushys arnt very good rifles. Any suggestions?

bushmasters are very good rifles, as an owner of a M4A2 carbine and the fact a lot of their sales are to LEA. as mine belonged to a sheriffs deputy prior to my owning it. as the other poster said find a stock one first, then get to know it with lots of rounds shot downrange. you will probably not into what you want new for $1000, you might find a used one in that range if you look around. i've shot around 2000 rounds through mine, never had a problem. look at Rock River Arms, Stag, and Del-Ton.

Axxe55 10-10-2011 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhaleNoises (Post 597868)
I think some of the reason I don't want a colt is the stories of nam and every one I've seen don't have simple take down bolts. The last one I saw required 2 different screw drivers to do a field strip. With the gas piston, I want it to be as reliable as possable. I want an AR for the off chance of a SHTF scenario. So there is a chance that it won't get cleaned all the time, and I've hard the piston systems are cleaner. One other thing is I've been resurching for over a year. All I own is a Ruger 10/22 and that took considerable reasurch. I also don't have the cash to buy a gun and change my mind on it.

you are trying to base a decision on problems they had over 40 years ago. they have made many design improvements since then. they sent those guns to frontline troops with no cleaning kits (said they didn't need them!) changed the powder in the ammo, and if i remember correctly, the first one didn't have a forward assist either. also non-chrome lined barrels, remember they fought in very wet jungles. i'm not for sure what you mean by using screwdrivers to do a field strip as most i have ever seen use take-down pins that can be pushed out with a finger or the point of a bullet. and if you don't plan on cleaning and maintenance, then IMO, you're asking for problems to occur. any weapon with moving parts requires maintenance, and the more parts that move, usually means it needs more attention. bad way to spend a $1000 and not take care of it. now i do take good care of mine, but i don't baby it by any means.

WhaleNoises 10-10-2011 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by axxe55

you are trying to base a decision on problems they had over 40 years ago. they have made many design improvements since then. they sent those guns to frontline troops with no cleaning kits (said they didn't need them!) changed the powder in the ammo, and if i remember correctly, the first one didn't have a forward assist either. also non-chrome lined barrels, remember they fought in very wet jungles. i'm not for sure what you mean by using screwdrivers to do a field strip as most i have ever seen use take-down pins that can be pushed out with a finger or the point of a bullet. and if you don't plan on cleaning and maintenance, then IMO, you're asking for problems to occur. any weapon with moving parts requires maintenance, and the more parts that move, usually means it needs more attention. bad way to spend a $1000 and not take care of it. now i do take good care of mine, but i don't baby it by any means.

Lol I will keep it clean and lubed. My point is that if we have some sort of military uprising/ zombie apocalypse, and I don't have the means to goto a store and buy oil. Then I want to feel my gun is not going to fail me. Using a piston system seem cleaner therefore less worry if I can't oil and clean the gun.

Axxe55 10-10-2011 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhaleNoises (Post 597878)
Lol I will keep it clean and lubed. My point is that if we have some sort of military uprising/ zombie apocalypse, and I don't have the means to goto a store and buy oil. Then I want to feel my gun is not going to fail me. Using a piston system seem cleaner therefore less worry if I can't oil and clean the gun.

DI gas system has been in use for over 40 years, the military and LEA still use it. the gas piston system has the advantage of being cleaner, but at a cost. you will most likely have to buy a conversion kit (about $400-700) and install it. this is on top of what you will pay for the rifle. so your $1000 budget has been blown. so now you are in the range of $1400-1700 into your rifle. cleaning supplies should be kept stocked just like ammo, food and water.

nfafan 10-10-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhaleNoises (Post 597868)
I think some of the reason I don't want a colt is the stories of nam and every one I've seen don't have simple take down bolts. The last one I saw required 2 different screw drivers to do a field strip. With the gas piston, I want it to be as reliable as possable. I want an AR for the off chance of a SHTF scenario. So there is a chance that it won't get cleaned all the time, and I've hard the piston systems are cleaner. One other thing is I've been resurching for over a year. All I own is a Ruger 10/22 and that took considerable reasurch. I also don't have the cash to buy a gun and change my mind on it.

I have a 73 Colt and an 06 Oly - the bolt groups take down the exact same way between the decades. The guns are relatively the same.
The DI vs piston AR debate is like 9mm vs .45 - it'll go on forever. I'm thinking Stoner knew what he was doing.

If you want a piston "AR"-ish rifle - consider a SIG556 as they were designed from the ground up to be a piston system, and many can be found at far less than a couple years ago. Or the recent Ruger system. Or look for a used Bushmasterpul ACR. I'd suggest an older Daewoo, as parts are still out there and they are affordable. Does the "new" Armalite still make their AR180?

Or if it's just .223; a SAIGA AKM in .223, or an HK93/clone, look for a Golani that runs - folks with Cent Golanis and Cent C93s or Vector V93s get mixed results, some good, some great, some have to send them in for repairs.

mjkeat 10-10-2011 04:15 PM

These threads always frustrate me.

You want a piston gun because the run cleaner, well they don't. They just deposit the filth in different places. I know this because I own both gas systems.

Have you ever thought about having to replace parts in such a scenario as you described? Try finding the proprietary parts to repair a piston system. It's not going to happen. In this scenario do you think you may have to travel? From experience every oz. counts while moving.

Oil? How much do you think it takes to keep an AR running? Do you plan on getting into 18+ hour gun battles? The likely-hood of that happening is slim to none.

Just because a law enforcement agency purchases a rifle doesn't make it up to par. Most LEOs, especially the ones authorizing the purchase of firearms don't know what they are buying. They are simply bean counters looking at the bottom line, meaning their budget.

If you're planning on using it for SHTF you need something up to the task because your life will be the price you will pay when the "good enough" AR you purchased to save $100 fails on you. Usually it happens at the most inconvenient time. Is $100 worth it?

If you have been researching over a year you'd know Colt doesn't have the pin "problem" like in the far far past.

If you want to get a rifle up to the task look into a Colt SP 6920. It's the tool you want in a situation like you described. They can be had for under $1k @ G and R Tactical.


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