Is the .223 FMJ worth anything in application? - Page 4
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Old 09-14-2009, 01:50 PM   #31
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How do you figure FMJ bullets have more "stopping power" and are "more deadly"?



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Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
I don't know a ton about it, but I would think FMJ would be more deadly, better penetration, better stopping power.
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Old 09-14-2009, 02:31 PM   #32
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I love internet know it all's. They are so funny.

Hogger keep on posting man I need some good laughs on a Monday.

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Old 09-14-2009, 03:15 PM   #33
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JMHO, but if you don't own and shoot one (whatever the subject), maybe you have nothing to add to a thread?

Just a thought...

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Old 09-14-2009, 05:13 PM   #34
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Hey, bkt, here's the title of this thread:

Is the .223 FMJ worth anything in application?

And, here’s the original question:

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Originally Posted by aliendroid View Post
Would the .223 FMJ bullets be good for hunting or home protection in an AR15 if you couldn't get other types of bullets? What other types of bullets are there in .223 that would be better?
And, here’s another question that you felt like posting:

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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
My understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is the 5.56 FMJ was adopted by NATO because it was less lethal than a soft-tip or hollow-point. It was very good at injuring someone, which had the advantages of taking them out the fight, risking more enemies to pull and carry that person to safety, and consuming significant enemy medical resources to care for that person.
This is the question that occasioned my reply. It wasn’t in response to the OP’s original query. (However, it could have been!) I don’t get it? First you (very politely) offer an incorrect opinion that is based on some sort of disinformation you have. I made a correct and annotated reply; and, then you come out of, ‘left field’ again with some more misconstrued logic – What’s up? Do you just like to argue?

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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
Right, that makes sense -- lighter rounds means being able to carry more of them. But it doesn't address using FMJ versus something else.
Are you sure you’re following all of this; or do you just want to argue? That response is in answer to one of the questions that YOU asked. You might want to take another look at your own post #20 in this thread. Furthermore, here’s that link to the reference information I posted for you!

M16 rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know posting is fun; (arguing too, right!) but, rather than waste more time on this, why not spend a few minutes off the board and check things out more BEFORE you reply? It should help you to clear up some of that mysterious, ‘fog’.

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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
Yes, but we're not talking about 5.56 vs 7.62x51. It's about 5.56 FMJ versus 5.56 other-than-FMJ. And in THAT context, wounding rather than killing does seem to be the objective.
You know, not to be rude – Really! But, this is just more of the same old thing as above. You don’t seem to be following along. What, are you typing faster than you’re thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkt View Post
That may be. But again, it doesn't address the different types of rounds.
It wasn’t meant to! It's ancillary information specifically provide for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkt View Post
Ballistics research seems to show that something other than a FMJ 5.56 is more lethal. If the objective is to kill the enemy, it seems counterintuitive that NATO et al would not issue the more lethal rounds to soldiers. On the other hand, if hampering the enemy with wounded does more damage overall than killing them outright, it does make sense.
Absolutely! There can be no doubt about that; and, from what I can see, nobody is arguing that point. As far as wounding over killing goes: Do we really need to discuss this? Besides I’ve already answered that question; guess you missed that one, too.

One last thing: I received a really pissy email from, ‘IGETEVEN’ (Who apparently does, indeed, try!) ‘IGETEVEN’ told me that he’s been speaking with you; and you don’t particularly like me and are waiting for your first opportunity to get me banned from this site for, as he put it, ‘arrogance’. (Something I’ve never before been accused of by anyone who’s ever known me!)

Look, I go on the gun boards in order to share and exchange firearms knowledge, not to waste my time on silly crap like this. Furthermore, you two guys getting together and ganging up on me with a load of pseudo-intellectual palaver really isn’t kosher or aboveboard.

As I’ve already mentioned to, ‘IGETEVEN’ (Wow, what a screen name! I should have guessed, huh!) If you want to bait me or trump something up in order to get rid of me, do you think that I really care? I’ve seen several firearms related websites already come and go. It amuses me to note that of the 4 websites where I have, in fact, been drawn into an argument like this, 3 of them are no longer around, or in their original form, or with the original moderators.

A year ago I dropped off this site for just such an argument. I had hoped that things would have changed for the better around here; but, apparently, that hasn’t happened. I’m a firearms instructor – by all accounts a very good one. I don’t go on these boards to argue. I am, also, an older man who is, something of, a student of human nature.

My suggest suggestion would be for you two guys to, ‘clean up your act’. Otherwise you’re going to severely limit the amount and quality of the firearms information and gun handling skills that you have to offer and, also, alienate a lot of the right people – people like me.

(If, in your capacity as a moderator, you want to get into this any further, PM me; I’ll be glad to share, ‘IGETEVEN’s bizarre PM’s with you, too.)

In the alternative, if you want to ban me – Go right ahead; I assure you it’ll be no big deal to me. I’ll get taken off the board for a false charge of, ‘arrogance’; and, you guys? Well, I’d say you’re lucky that stupidity and malice aren't crimes.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:01 PM   #35
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I'm so glad that there's people like G21.45 around that knows everything....

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Old 09-14-2009, 06:05 PM   #36
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Our troops don't use hollowpoints because some geniuses think they're too lethal and inhumane.

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Old 09-14-2009, 06:05 PM   #37
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I didn't have a dog in this fight until I read this. You should be temporarily (at least) stopped from posting anymore drivel. What you should have done was PM whoever you have a problem with instead of dragging the rest of us into it. It sounds like you're not happy on this forum anyway & you indicate you don't care. I'm POSITIVE we'll survive on this forum without you correcting & arguing with everybody.

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Old 09-14-2009, 08:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G21.45 View Post
I know posting is fun; (arguing too, right!) but, rather than waste more time on this, why not spend a few minutes off the board and check things out more BEFORE you reply? It should help you to clear up some of that mysterious, ‘fog’.

You know, not to be rude – Really! But, this is just more of the same old thing as above. You don’t seem to be following along. What, are you typing faster than you’re thinking?

One last thing: I received a really pissy email from, ‘IGETEVEN’ (Who apparently does, indeed, try!) ‘IGETEVEN’ told me that he’s been speaking with you; and you don’t particularly like me and are waiting for your first opportunity to get me banned from this site for, as he put it, ‘arrogance’. (Something I’ve never before been accused of by anyone who’s ever known me!)

Look, I go on the gun boards in order to share and exchange firearms knowledge, not to waste my time on silly crap like this. Furthermore, you two guys getting together and ganging up on me with a load of pseudo-intellectual palaver really isn’t kosher or aboveboard.

As I’ve already mentioned to, ‘IGETEVEN’ (Wow, what a screen name! I should have guessed, huh!) If you want to bait me or trump something up in order to get rid of me, do you think that I really care? I’ve seen several firearms related websites already come and go. It amuses me to note that of the 4 websites where I have, in fact, been drawn into an argument like this, 3 of them are no longer around, or in their original form, or with the original moderators.

A year ago I dropped off this site for just such an argument. I had hoped that things would have changed for the better around here; but, apparently, that hasn’t happened. I’m a firearms instructor – by all accounts a very good one. I don’t go on these boards to argue. I am, also, an older man who is, something of, a student of human nature.

My suggest suggestion would be for you two guys to, ‘clean up your act’. Otherwise you’re going to severely limit the amount and quality of the firearms information and gun handling skills that you have to offer and, also, alienate a lot of the right people – people like me.

(If, in your capacity as a moderator, you want to get into this any further, PM me; I’ll be glad to share, ‘IGETEVEN’s bizarre PM’s with you, too.)

In the alternative, if you want to ban me – Go right ahead; I assure you it’ll be no big deal to me. I’ll get taken off the board for a false charge of, ‘arrogance’; and, you guys? Well, I’d say you’re lucky that stupidity and malice aren't crimes.
I see a rattled, unchallenged, arrogant, egotistical gentlemen set in his ways and very unsympathetic and caring as a instructor and trainer. In other words his bed-side manors suck. Just my own observation and opinion though and by his actions and remarks here, there is no doubt, in my military mind, that psychologically............I got even.

Jack
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:23 PM   #39
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OK, to sum up:

1. Yes, 5.56/.223 FMJ is useful relative to something less effective. If it's the best you have, it's awfully damn useful.

2. 5.56/.223 other-than-FMJ (like soft-tip) may be more effective for taking out larger targets.

Thank you, G21.45 for your input. We learned much from your posts.

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Old 09-14-2009, 10:45 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
If it were me buying an AR, I would just go ahead and get the one built for 5.56 instead of .223. From what I've been told, they are the same thing, but 5.56 is at higher pressure. On the question of application, yeah you could hunt with it, go out to the range and shoot with it, defend the home with it. There are plenty of uses for it.
The 5.56 has a slightly longer throat and is often a hotter load. But otherwise, it is essentially the same round as the .223; an AR chambered for 5.56 works fine with .223 Remington. The reverse is not necessarily true!

I'm pretty sure most ARs made today are chambered for 5.56 (obviously, with the exception of those made in different calibers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hogger129 View Post
I don't know a ton about it, but I would think FMJ would be more deadly, better penetration, better stopping power.
It really depends on the circumstances and maybe what you're shooting through to get to your target. But as a rule, you want to impart as much kinetic energy as possible to your target. A FMJ round often will pass right through a target and thus not deliver anywhere near as much force as a hollow-point or soft-tip which will expand and/or tumble inside the target.
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