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Your opinions on this rig please????


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Old 09-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW357

If we're talking ballistically (stopping power) here, that's one thing. I'm not an armchair ballistician so I can't talk about numbers as well as others. So I won't.

But if you're implying the 5.56 can't reach out to past 500 yards you need to rethink that.
I've seen video footage of .223 reach out to 1250 yards with marginal accuracy so I'm with you there.

I'm talking about stopping power. .556 loses its effectiveness out past 150 yards if you're depending on fragmentation as the wounding mechanism. Now if you're using something like a 60gr Nosler Partition JSP that's another story. But that stuffs EXPENSIVE for SHTF ammo. And the wound profiles aren't as good as fragmentation. (But they're more consistent out to longer ranges.)
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:41 PM   #52
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Unless you move the AR up to a .308 you aren't going to get much out of either past 150 yards.
Wasn't that why the military started fielding M-14's again in Iraq, too distant targets going unphased by squirrel-killer .223's?
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:45 PM   #53
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Wasn't that why the military started fielding M-14's again in Iraq, too distant targets going unphased by squirrel-killer .223's?
I wasn't there, I've been a LEO my entire adult life. But my close friend was infantry out there, and that's what he was telling me. He said there were multiple instances where they would take fire from just outside the edge of what he called .556's effective range and keep taking fire until somebody started sending something heavier that way. Then the BGs would roll out.

I did some heavy reading on it and there were a lot of stories like his and if you read up on the terminal ballistics of M193 and M855 ammo it makes a lot of sense.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:07 PM   #54
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I wouldn't keep an AK when I could get a case of them for $500. I sure wouldn't sink $1100 into one. I felt guilty selling them for $100 each. I felt even worse about selling a box of russian hollow points for $3. The POS shot way better with Winchester ammo.

The SKS is a horse of a different color. Just a little work and the right ammo an SKS will hold it's own with a marlin 60.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:11 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by DeltaF

I wasn't there, I've been a LEO my entire adult life. But my close friend was infantry out there, and that's what he was telling me. He said there were multiple instances where they would take fire from just outside the edge of what he called .556's effective range and keep taking fire until somebody started sending something heavier that way. Then the BGs would roll out.

I did some heavy reading on it and there were a lot of stories like his and if you read up on the terminal ballistics of M193 and M855 ammo it makes a lot of sense.
I'm not gonna argue the effectiveness of 5.56 for combat purposes.

Even at close range its not a terribly effective man stopper. If the bullet fragments inside the body it can work ok. But by and large I have friends who have punch .22 sized holes through terrorists without them stopping the fight. Of course part of that has to do with the drugs they are on. But as I understand, yes it is a very high velocity round, but may not really be the best choice.

But, it gets the job done when needed, just prolly not as effectively as others.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:18 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW357

I'm not gonna argue the effectiveness of 5.56 for combat purposes.

Even at close range its not a terribly effective man stopper. If the bullet fragments inside the body it can work ok. But by and large I have friends who have punch .22 sized holes through terrorists without them stopping the fight. Of course part of that has to do with the drugs they are on. But as I understand, yes it is a very high velocity round, but may not really be the best choice.

But, it gets the job done when needed, just prolly not as effectively as others.
I completely agree with you. It frustrates me to be limited to FC223L ammo when on duty. I'm happy to have a rifle if SHTF, some guys can't afford to buy em on LEO pay. But there are so many better options as far as caliber.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:59 PM   #57
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I completely agree with you. It frustrates me to be limited to FC223L ammo when on duty. I'm happy to have a rifle if SHTF, some guys can't afford to buy em on LEO pay. But there are so many better options as far as caliber.
Have you read some of the build threads on here for 7.62x39mm AR setups? If done correctly and with the right mags, it sounds appetizing.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:32 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by orangello

Have you read some of the build threads on here for 7.62x39mm AR setups? If done correctly and with the right mags, it sounds appetizing.
To get a better rifle for work I would have to buy an AR10 outright. No modifications except by the agency armorers. The exact make/model rifle has to be on their approved list. Or I have to join SWAT. But I'm still recovering from an injury so I can't make the cut and I'm a new dad again so I'm not dedicating that kind of time right now. They have to approve all optics/lights/anything else I would mount to the rifle as well.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:38 PM   #59
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I wasn't there, I've been a LEO my entire adult life. But my close friend was infantry out there, and that's what he was telling me. He said there were multiple instances where they would take fire from just outside the edge of what he called .556's effective range and keep taking fire until somebody started sending something heavier that way. Then the BGs would roll out.

I did some heavy reading on it and there were a lot of stories like his and if you read up on the terminal ballistics of M193 and M855 ammo it makes a lot of sense.
A friend I went to school with went to Iraq as an advisor. Soldiers were taking head shots when someone was shooting at them.

When I enlisted in the service I owned a Model 70 chambered in 270. When I qualified with the peashooter they called an M16A1 I was less than happy that I might have to fight with a varmint rifle. I was thinking are we going to war with nutria rats?
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:42 PM   #60
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http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f20/7-62x39-ar-done-94094/

DeltaF, check that one out. It may not do for work, but it is very cool. I think moutainman did one as well; he is an experienced AR builder.

I wonder, would they allow the out-tha-box model from RockRiverArms? http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id= 558
That is the AR I am holding out for. As a LEO, you might have access to one a bit earlier than most of us. Notice the slant cut mag well.
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