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Old 09-17-2011, 04:08 AM   #21
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he designed it but was basically forced to he said his reasons in a interview I just cant find it

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Old 09-17-2011, 01:10 PM   #22
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close range the 5.45 all day hits you and dose crazy things to a body if there is any kinda of wall wood etc. I would go 7.62
My friend in the army said someone shoot him with a 5.45 it hit a peice of wood first then him it came in sideways and they say that's why he did not die because it didn't go through the armor.
Even if it hadn't hit the wood chances are it still wouldn't have defeated hit plate. We had guys take 7.62 to the chest and come out unwounded, weak kneed and winded but uninjured. One of the guys from A or B Co. took 2 rounds to the very top edge of his plate, the rounds barely made an imprint.

My point is even though the 7.62x39 didn't penetrate it'll still knock you D in the ground. I doubt 5.45 would even do that.

W/ all the soldiers dying I never understood the argument against 7.62x39. And if you can read I don't understand why people still doubt the MOM accuracy of 7.63x39. It may not be a bench rest shooter like many think is required but as a battle rifle it is very respectable as it proves sometimes daily.
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:16 PM   #23
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the 45-70 is a beast and marlin ( or any other )( lever actions are bestial.
There's a reason there's still one in most of the rifle cabinets i've seen. It's the ultimate bear-stopper and still a fantastic all-round hunting rifle.

come to think of it, why do i even want an AK, lol, I'll just buy one of those souped-up tactical lever gins.
If you handload and have a Marlin the 45-70 is a VERY powerful cartridge and is very versatile. You can load up very hot rounds in a Marlin. The biggest problem with factory ammunition is that they're loaded down, because there are a lot of Trapdoors around and if they loaded hotter rounds they could possibly get put in a Trapdoor that cannot handle the preassure of the cartridge. I've got an 1886 Springfield Trapdoor and I only shoot very mild blackpowder cartridges in it, because it's so very special to me.

The Battle of the Little Bighorn is a great example of the Trapdoor versus the Lever Action, and we all know how that turned out .
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:43 PM   #24
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Default As to the OP's original question...

"Why do we still use 47's?"

Well, how about, Because the they WORK?

I was part of the Cults of the 1911 and AR15/M16 for years. We devolve to that which we were trained in. And sometimes, that can be fatal...

Combat-wise, "The Widow Maker," the AK47, is the most combat proven, capable (within its performance envelope) weapon of all time... More AKs have been produced, than all other same specific type weapons combined. Estimates range widely, but all agree that a starting figure of 20 MILLION weapons is conservative... Nobody is actually sure just how many have been made, but one thing is sure- they'll work, and keep working, long after other weapons "give up the ghost..."

I heartily recommend the fine work of Pulitzer Prize winning author C.J. Chivers, The Gun. It is one of the definitive works on the AK47, and goes into detail of its development, employment, and place in today's world... "Superb" is barely adequate to describe this work...

I've a Polish AKMS w/folding stock, two modified WASR 10/63s w/ATI furniture, all three with PWS 47Cs, and the WASRs with EOTech 517s. I chose these, after having maxed-out ARs w/LMT 5.56-6.8SPC systems.

Why? The AK in 7.62X39 is .310 caliber, far more capable of inflicting incapacitating wounds than 5.56X45, or 6.8SPC... .223 and .270 do not equal .310... Size and mass do matter, perhaps at least as much as mere velocity...

Reliability-wise, the AK47 is MUCH better than even piston driven AR15s or M4s... Stoner's platform, best executed in the AR10, was over-engineered in the AR15/M16/M4... The AR10 was never intended to be full auto, unlike how the AR15 platform, M16/M4 were adopted into military service...

The AK47 is simple, robust, designed for specific range limitations, and reliable in the extreme cauldron known as combat... Whether it's in the desert, Arctic, woods, swamps, jungles, mountains, or urban settings, the AK47 is still doing what it was designed to do, since 1947- maim and kill one's enemies...

Cost-wise, it beats the AR handily. No, it's not a 1,000yd rifle, but it does "minute of man" quite well, and has taken its share of NVA out to 600 yards... For that matter, so has the SKS, a much over looked battle rifle...

Yes, ammo for 5.56X45 ammo is plentiful, but does it do the job that is needed/required, as well as the proven AK47? Depends upon three things, actually...

1.) How accurate is the weapon?
2.) How is the weapon set-up?
3.) How "good" is the shooter?

If all three of the above are maxed-out, the weapon will work to the fullest extent of that operational envelope. Anything less from any or all of the three, and you see suboptimal performance, graded gradually or steeply...

The AK47 has a track record that will not soon, or ever, be matched, or exceeded... It will be with us for as long as there is ammunition, and spare parts... It is, to me, a "beautiful" weapon, not for its "looks," but for its capabilities...

As form follows function, so too, will the AK47 be efficiently "harvesting" its share of candidates for the Valkyries to take to Valhalla, to await the final battle of Ragnarok... WHEN the SHTF, I'll have my weapons, of which the AK47 will play a prominent role...

Ammo? If your particular weapon is accurate enough, spend a bit more, and buy either MFS2000 FMJ or the best Lapua FMJ, for shear accuracy. Terminal effects and damage? Go for Hornady's 123gr. SST... Explosive, with very good penetration... Pink mist, or limbs hanging by a thread, any of the three ammos will terminate most pests...

Unpretentious, humble, and understated, the AK47 is a choice of the warrior who is unimpressed with the gunwhores of magazine publishers...

Oh, and as to magazines, Bulgarian polymer mags are the best, while TAPCO's magazines, also in polymer, are a good second place choice, and much less in cost... Either, or both, are my choices over steel magazines...

EVERYTHING about the AK47 is less in cost than the AR15/M16/M4 platform... "Cheap?" Not if your life, and the lives of family and friends are concerned... Money may be important, but reliability is more important...

Place your steel on/into flesh, by placement, placement, placement, with copious amounts of practice, practice, and more practice... Get the picture?

If I need to go beyond 300 to 400 meters that I limit myself, with my described AKs above, I'll switch to other weapons... No hu-hu, cobber... Taking out the trash means different tools for different tasks... But for up close, serious social difficulties, the AK47 is tough to beat...

Hope I've answered the above pertinent question,
"Why do we still use 47's?"

If not, ask, and I'll further qualify my position...

Glockcurmudgeon, out...

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Last edited by Glockcurmudgeon; 09-17-2011 at 02:53 PM. Reason: clarity and grammar
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Firearms4ever View Post
If you handload and have a Marlin the 45-70 is a VERY powerful cartridge and is very versatile. You can load up very hot rounds in a Marlin. The biggest problem with factory ammunition is that they're loaded down, because there are a lot of Trapdoors around and if they loaded hotter rounds they could possibly get put in a Trapdoor that cannot handle the preassure of the cartridge. I've got an 1886 Springfield Trapdoor and I only shoot very mild blackpowder cartridges in it, because it's so very special to me.

The Battle of the Little Bighorn is a great example of the Trapdoor versus the Lever Action, and we all know how that turned out .
Hornady leverRevolution, .444 marlin or 45-70, put that at whatever you want to die, and squeeze the trigger

handloads are a heck of a lot cheaper, too. i'd feel good about having a marlin in a rucksack until i can get my mitts on a semi- of full auto. Reliable as they come. . . .
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Old 09-18-2011, 03:12 AM   #26
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Since you are moving to Argentina and will not be able to take any firearms with you why don't we talk realistically about what you will be able to obtain legally once there. Since you have three years before you can buy a military style semi-auto look at the Argentine Mausers to fill the void for the next three years. Since they currently use the M-16A1, look at an AR-15 for your future. Since they are converting to the AUG, that may be an option.

Ammo in 7.65 X 53, 7.62 X 51 and 5.56 X 45 will be the most available. Wndering what to get before you get there is a waste of energy.

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Old 09-18-2011, 06:40 AM   #27
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Since you are moving to Argentina and will not be able to take any firearms with you why don't we talk realistically about what you will be able to obtain legally once there. Since you have three years before you can buy a military style semi-auto look at the Argentine Mausers to fill the void for the next three years. Since they currently use the M-16A1, look at an AR-15 for your future. Since they are converting to the AUG, that may be an option.

Ammo in 7.65 X 53, 7.62 X 51 and 5.56 X 45 will be the most available. Wndering what to get before you get there is a waste of energy.
who says i can't bring my pistola or whatever i purchase in canada into argentina ?
theri not suddenly going to turn nazi at imports and try to ban firearms form being imported into the country, well, they could, but last time i checked they were pretty stable.
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Old 09-18-2011, 02:44 PM   #28
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You better check their rules VERY carefully. Most countries have laws, rules and regulations about importing firearms, especially if you are a foreign national moving to their country. The time to find out about such laws is not at the port of entry. I cannot imagine Argentine jails are any more comfortable than those in the US/Canada. Their justice system is decidely different, too.

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Old 09-19-2011, 04:48 PM   #29
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You better check their rules VERY carefully. Most countries have laws, rules and regulations about importing firearms, especially if you are a foreign national moving to their country. The time to find out about such laws is not at the port of entry. I cannot imagine Argentine jails are any more comfortable than those in the US/Canada. Their justice system is decidely different, too.
last time i checked it was all coo' but i will be calling theri embassy fo' sho' .
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hoplophobia. : irrational fear of weapons as opposed to people.
odd : " oppositional defiance disorder. ", AKA having a spine. me to a tee.

... if the mafia was any bigger, it'd be our govt.
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Old 09-19-2011, 04:52 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Tailypoe View Post
Hornady leverRevolution, .444 marlin or 45-70, put that at whatever you want to die, and squeeze the trigger

handloads are a heck of a lot cheaper, too. i'd feel good about having a marlin in a rucksack until i can get my mitts on a semi- of full auto. Reliable as they come. . . .
I think that whoever makes the Desert Eagle now or originally along with Ruger could probably make a good semi automatic or bolt action in 45-70.
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