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Old 09-16-2011, 02:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
5.45 bullets do not tumble any more than 5.56 bullets do. They can and do yaw or sideslip. That can cause significant damage when it occurs. The problem is it is not consistant. It MAY yaw and it MAY not.

The whole argument falls back to the old "light-fast" and "heavy-slow" controversy handgunners have been arguing since 1935 with the introduction of the .357 Magnum.

The 74 is absolutely useless w/o ammo. How much is available in Argentina? In the US, there are no domestic manufacturers of 5.45 ammo. It is wholly dependant on import. The cheap supply could dry up with a stroke of Oblama's pen. The 7.62X39 is made by all of the big three US ammo companies.

An AK-47 is plenty accurate out to 300 meters. I seriously doubt the 74 is going to stretch that range much if at all.
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Plus it is the rifle weapon of choice of most of our enemies and a few allies. Ammo is plentiful, to say the least.
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Old 09-16-2011, 02:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
5.45 bullets do not tumble any more than 5.56 bullets do. They can and do yaw or sideslip. That can cause significant damage when it occurs. The problem is it is not consistant. It MAY yaw and it MAY not.

The whole argument falls back to the old "light-fast" and "heavy-slow" controversy handgunners have been arguing since 1935 with the introduction of the .357 Magnum.

The 74 is absolutely useless w/o ammo. How much is available in Argentina? In the US, there are no domestic manufacturers of 5.45 ammo. It is wholly dependant on import. The cheap supply could dry up with a stroke of Oblama's pen. The 7.62X39 is made by all of the big three US ammo companies.

An AK-47 is plenty accurate out to 300 meters. I seriously doubt the 74 is going to stretch that range much if at all.

Agreed. There are two other examples I can think of. One being during the Revolutionary War we had developed the Kentucky Long Rifle (rifled barrel) and used it against the British that were using the Brown Bess (smoothbore barrel). The British prefered the Brown Bess and napoleanic tactics, because they could throw out a massive amount of lead at you, and reload quickly. Whereas the Kentucky Long Rifle was slower to load, but you could stay out of their range and still hit your targets. The other is the Springfield Trapdoor against the Lever Action firearms like the Winchester 1873. The Trapdoor fired a much higher powered round, but was slower firing, one shot, and was larger whereas the 1873 Winchester was much faster firing, smaller, and had a higher magazine capacity, but fired a pistol cartridge that wasn't as nearly as powerful as the 45-70.
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:03 PM   #13
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hey ak purists, riddle me this :
The 74 has been out for eons, why do we still even mass-produce 47's ?? ??
I thought the 74 was vastly improved in most measurable ways ? i've talked to plenty of AK owners and they all admit the 5.45 x 39 is superior for almost every occaision.

How much of this is nostalgia ? It seems to me like the original ak's days are past.
Why? Because we can.
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Old 09-16-2011, 03:56 PM   #14
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heres my thoughts on the 5.56x39. If your going with any thing smaller than a .223 dont wast your time money or safety. just get a Rugar 10/22 and dress it for the situation your intending to use or be in. You can get a 10/22 for 150 or less at a pawn shop or gun show, aftermarket stocks and barrels are cheap compared to a center fire gun. you can carry 1500 rounds+ easy. And with some practice and proficient use 200 yard rang. what more do you want. if you realy want more get an FAL, M1A, G3, AR10, M14.

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Old 09-16-2011, 04:08 PM   #15
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say that again but use glock for 74, 40 for 5.45 and 1911 for 47 . sounds silly now doesn't it?
Moonpie, you nailed it.

I would also point out that the Russians did not forget about the 7.62x39 cartridge after the AK-74 was introduced. The AK-103 and AK-104 incorporate some of the AK-74's modern features, but the AK-103/4 are chambered for 7.62x39..... and the Venezuelan gov't recently chose the AK-103 over the AK-74.

Kalashnikov's baby is still going strong.
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Old 09-16-2011, 08:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post

The 74 is absolutely useless w/o ammo. How much is available in Argentina? In the US, there are no domestic manufacturers of 5.45 ammo. It is wholly dependant on import. The cheap supply could dry up with a stroke of Oblama's pen. The 7.62X39 is made by all of the big three US ammo companies.

An AK-47 is plenty accurate out to 300 meters. I seriously doubt the 74 is going to stretch that range much if at all.
I used to pose that same argument, but there are a handful of manufactures in the U.S. now. Hornady includes the 5.45 in their new steel cased line. Winchester has both 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 in their line-up and I can't remember the others, but they were listed in the latest "Complete Guide of the AK-47" by G&A. BUT, it's all expensive, compared to import.

I still opt for the '47 . It penetrates and despite claims of ïnconsistency, I've bought cases recently of Yugo Brassed cased 123gr FMJ that are AMAZINGLY accurate and consistent. Not only will it shred through a car door like butter, it also leaves its jacket upon impact, which can created a wicked wound, i suspect.
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Old 09-16-2011, 08:31 PM   #17
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heres my thoughts on the 5.56x39. If your going with any thing smaller than a .223 dont wast your time money or safety. just get a Rugar 10/22 and dress it for the situation your intending to use or be in. You can get a 10/22 for 150 or less at a pawn shop or gun show, aftermarket stocks and barrels are cheap compared to a center fire gun. you can carry 1500 rounds+ easy. And with some practice and proficient use 200 yard rang. what more do you want. if you realy want more get an FAL, M1A, G3, AR10, M14.
Yeah that sounds great. You're much safer with a 40gr bullet traveling under 1000fps than you are a 55gr bullet traveling over 3,100fps.

In the firearms world, there's a major factor we like to call ENERGY. It is measured in ft-lbs and it a product of mass, velocity and force.

Kinetic Energy (KE) = 1/2 MV2

Energy is the #1 factor that determines wounding. Please understand your position before you give folks very poor and uneducated advise.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:31 PM   #18
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close range the 5.45 all day hits you and dose crazy things to a body if there is any kinda of wall wood etc. I would go 7.62
My friend in the army said someone shoot him with a 5.45 it hit a peice of wood first then him it came in sideways and they say that's why he did not die because it didn't go through the armor.

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Old 09-17-2011, 03:54 AM   #19
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Agreed. There are two other examples I can think of. One being during the Revolutionary War we had developed the Kentucky Long Rifle (rifled barrel) and used it against the British that were using the Brown Bess (smoothbore barrel). The British prefered the Brown Bess and napoleanic tactics, because they could throw out a massive amount of lead at you, and reload quickly. Whereas the Kentucky Long Rifle was slower to load, but you could stay out of their range and still hit your targets. The other is the Springfield Trapdoor against the Lever Action firearms like the Winchester 1873. The Trapdoor fired a much higher powered round, but was slower firing, one shot, and was larger whereas the 1873 Winchester was much faster firing, smaller, and had a higher magazine capacity, but fired a pistol cartridge that wasn't as nearly as powerful as the 45-70.
the 45-70 is a beast and marlin ( or any other )( lever actions are bestial.
There's a reason there's still one in most of the rifle cabinets i've seen. It's the ultimate bear-stopper and still a fantastic all-round hunting rifle.

come to think of it, why do i even want an AK, lol, I'll just buy one of those souped-up tactical lever gins.
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Old 09-17-2011, 03:56 AM   #20
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Moonpie, you nailed it.

I would also point out that the Russians did not forget about the 7.62x39 cartridge after the AK-74 was introduced. The AK-103 and AK-104 incorporate some of the AK-74's modern features, but the AK-103/4 are chambered for 7.62x39..... and the Venezuelan gov't recently chose the AK-103 over the AK-74.

Kalashnikov's baby is still going strong.
kalashnikov designed the 74 too.
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click to learn about racist roots of gun control & how to end white slavery.
" guns are awesome, necessary & everyone should have one " - All of the founding fathers, especially Jefferson.
marlin 1895sbl, g 30sf, wilson KZ45, & more
hoplophobia. : irrational fear of weapons as opposed to people.
odd : " oppositional defiance disorder. ", AKA having a spine. me to a tee.

... if the mafia was any bigger, it'd be our govt.
god guts gold guns, yeehaw
NAGR>NRA
45≠fat
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