[Darth AkSarBen]

I hear a lot of talk about the AK not being a reliable weapon for close groups and accuracy. Bull. If you are shooting cheap ammo, steel case then I suppose 3" groups are the norm at 100 yards. I have bot the .223 Saiga and the .308 Saiga, that are converted back. I reload and recently shot a 3 shot one hole group with the .223 at 100 yards. The Saiga .308 Winchester (7.62 X 51) is also an excellent rifle in accuracy. Plus, it has very good knock down. My rifle seems to like the 150 gr to 130 gr bullets the best. Shot at a Pizza Hut box bottom the other evening, at 100 yards, 5 shot group. Thought I was missing the black dot I painted on it. Used Remington PSP Core-LOKT 150 bullets I got at Dunham's for $14.99 a box . They are pretty good for factory ammo.



and a target with some hand loads.


I'm working with Hodgdon Benchmark powder as it is a faster burning powder than the BLC-2 or the H335 powders or Hodgdon Varget. With a 16" barrel on the .308 and a 1:12 twist I am trying to maximize the burn rate so that all the powder gets burned up before leaving the muzzle to create flash.

[M14sRock]

Nice shooting! Saigas are really nice shooters.

[Yunus]

Darth,

I know about nothing regarding AK's. What do you mean when you say "converted back" and does that affect accuracy at all?

[Darth AkSarBen]

Originally Posted by Yunus

Darth,

I know about nothing regarding AK's. What do you mean when you say "converted back" and does that affect accuracy at all?

Well, When a Saiga is imported into the U.S. it is of a hunting/sporting type configuration. They moved the trigger back and used a sort of wishbone affair to release the sear from the hammer. Original AK have a trigger near the magazine release, and are more balanced. Here is a picture of one as it is imported, and stock:
This image is found here: Russian American Armory

My Saiga with some changes to the furniture (butt stock and fore grip, but the trigger group not yet moved forward, but still in it's original position:


Notice the fire control group (trigger/sear) are still at the rear further away from the magazine latch, which is where they are originally) The collapsible butt stock has a pistol grip that attaches directly to it, via big screw, rather than to the rifle's receiver.

Same rifle after conversion, which entials removing a false floor plate that covers the original holes for the Pistol Grip Nut, and where the trigger would go. They rivet this floor plate on at the factory and give it the look of the sports rifle. Once the bottom plate is removed it exposes the new PG hole (square) where a regular PG nut fits through the receiver and the Pistol Grip attaches to it. And also exposes the hole where the trigger originally goes.



It does improve accuracy as there is no wish bone affair and the hammer and sear can be polished before assembling. AND it give better control of the trigger let off, and the rifle is more balanced now. The fire control group is moved foward, and a new hole I drilled in the left over trigger guard actualy fits right under that magazine latch. The PG bolts directly to the receiver.

Go here: Saiga .223 AK Conversion - 1 and you see it page by page how the Saiga is converted back into the AK that is hidden under the imported sportsterized version.

[CaseyChadwell]

WOW!! Not a big AK fan, but, if you can get groups like that and still be able to drag it through the mud, I might have to get me one of those. Has anybody shot the one chambered for the 7.62X39? I think if someone had one like that and it shot as good as the groups above, that would make one hard to beat semi-auto deer rifle. I am going to look onto them, when the funds get rebuilt from some AR work.

Should I have said anything about an AR on the AK page? Sorry if I offended someone

[FCross7]

Originally Posted by CaseyChadwell

WOW!! Not a big AK fan, but, if you can get groups like that and still be able to drag it through the mud, I might have to get me one of those. Has anybody shot the one chambered for the 7.62X39? I think if someone had one like that and it shot as good as the groups above, that would make one hard to beat semi-auto deer rifle. I am going to look onto them, when the funds get rebuilt from some AR work.

Should I have said anything about an AR on the AK page? Sorry if I offended someone

I really doubt that you could get that kind of accuracy out of the 7.62x39. It's just not nearly as accurate of a round as the .308 is.

-Fred

[lpalmer80]

Originally Posted by FCross7

I really doubt that you could get that kind of accuracy out of the 7.62x39. It's just not nearly as accurate of a round as the .308 is.

-Fred

I'd bet good money you could that kind of accuracy if you used the new Hornady loads!!!

[CaseyChadwell]

I will be finding out in a few days. I found one that I am going to run a few different types of bullets through. I forgot that my wifes uncle has several, so I'm going to go shoot his with quality ammo. I will let you all know what kind of accuracy it will get. I know there are a few companies that make 7.62X39 ammo for deer hunting. I am going to buy some of that and see what happens.

And I have seen 7.62X39 get excellent accuracy out of a bolt action Ruger. I don't think it is as much the round as it is the firearms it is chambered for...

[FCross7]

I don't know too much about the round as I haven't shot it all that much, but here is what JD had to say on it in another thread about AR's chambered in it:

Originally Posted by Dillinger

Here's the deal. The 7.62 x 39 round is great - if you are shooting across the street. It hits hard, and it hits with the poop to put someone on their butt.

Now, go out to 200 or 300 yards, and you have a round that ballistically, just inferior to many other options out there.

JD

-Fred

[diggsbakes]

Wow. After looking at that Saiga I might have to reconsider my next choice for an AK variant.

As far as the accuracy of the 7.62 x 39. When it was designed it was meant for accuracy not beyond what was needed. I still think the accuracy issue of the AK 47 is a bit overblown. If you can get consistent hits in 8"-12" groups with in 100-150 yards with the firepower the AK provides, that's good enough for me.

The first time I took out my Romanian I was pleasantly surprised by the lack of adjustment needed to zero at 25 yards as well as the results from 100 yards. You hear all the horror stories of the frequency of a canted front sight and difficulty in adjusting windage w/o damaging the weapon. But I experienced none of this.

However, my buddy picked up a Chi-Com for a hundred bucks a few years back and after zeroing at 25 yards (if you want to call it that) we couldn't hit a thing at 100 yards. Don't know what the problem was, or cared really.