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Old 07-15-2012, 06:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatoragn View Post
When I need to sight in a rifle I do the following:

1) boresight the gun (a laser boresighter saves a lot of ammo cost)

2) attach a target with 1 inch grids onto a large piece of card board and start at 25 yards to make sure I am "on paper". If necessary make adjustments to get close to bull's eye. A little low is good. When I am close enough that I have no doubt I will be on paper I move to the next distance.

3) attach new target grid to cardboard and move to 50 yards, make any necessary adjustments. When I am close enough that I have no doubt I will be on paper I move to the next distance.

4) attach new target to cardboard and move to 100 yards, my scoped hunting rifles I set to be two inches (squares) high, dead center on windage at this distance.

Using my eyes, for an AK, SKS with iron sights I would be happy with putting all rounds in a pie plate at 100 yards. YMMV
lol

I'd be happy to know I hit something other than dirt....
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:25 PM   #22
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Fluke,

I did notice one thing immediately in the video!
First of all get the Rifle Barrel off the support or bags while you are shooting. Even if you were zeroed due to the fact of barrel harmonics and the affect of something having contact with the barrel while it is shooting changes the impact point. That is why all Sniper Rifles and Target Rifles are Free Floated so there is no contact with the stock and barrel while shooting. There could also be another issue that you are not considering. It is not effected as much with a rifle as with a handgun but which is your dominant eye. If you do not know we can walk you through how to find out. And the front sight should be halfway up in the hole of the rear sight while you should focus only on the front sight! The target should look a little blurry but the front sight post should look sharp and clear. If you look at the target instead of the front sight post this could also contribute to the problem.
What you need to do as many have mentioned is practice good weapon handling skills. Good rest position with the weapon, good sight alignment, not breathing when shooting and a smooth trigger pull with out any flinching. I am not doubting you but just mentioning these important things. Then what I would do is get some newspaper or butcher paper and some thumb tacks and tac it to the entire face of the insulation board you mentioned. Then put your target on it and also have a permanent marker with you in black to mark the bullet holes in the paper after each string of fire until it is properly zeroed.
Then you will know for sure where your rounds are striking the target. As the guys have stated with your AR with Iron Sights at 25 yards draw a small X somewhere about 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 inches below the dead center bulls eye on the target. Aim at the dead center bulls eye when shooting. Make adjustments until while aiming and shooting at the bulls eye the bullet strikes on the small X below. This is the difference between line of bore and line of sight. So the impacts should be low at 25 yards due to the Line of Sight is around 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 Inches above the line of the bore at that distance. This should put you real close to being on at 50 and 100 Yards. Then using a good rest and practicing good techniques as above. Fire at least five rounds at 50 yards. Then check to see where the middle (center) of the 5 shot group area is and make adjustments accordingly. Then when satisfied go on back to 100 and repeat the sequence until you are zeroed to your satisfaction. You will want to zero with the rounds you are going to carry in the rifle. Other ammunition will have normally always shoot differently and strike off center. But as I mentioned before you must keep the barrel from having contact with the rest or bags during firing always it will change the impact point. Use good quality ammunition when you shoot. OH and one other thing. If you lube your barrel they will more than likely always shoot high on the first one or two rounds if that has happening to you. But I can not imagine the rifle shooting that bad. We will take it from there since there are a lot o knowledgeable people to help here on the FTF. As said making one inch grids also is a big help!

03

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Old 07-16-2012, 11:50 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Sniper03 View Post
Fluke,

I did notice one thing immediately in the video!
First of all get the Rifle Barrel off the support or bags while you are shooting. Even if you were zeroed due to the fact of barrel harmonics and the affect of something having contact with the barrel while it is shooting changes the impact point. That is why all Sniper Rifles and Target Rifles are Free Floated so there is no contact with the stock and barrel while shooting. There could also be another issue that you are not considering. It is not effected as much with a rifle as with a handgun but which is your dominant eye. If you do not know we can walk you through how to find out. And the front sight should be halfway up in the hole of the rear sight while you should focus only on the front sight! The target should look a little blurry but the front sight post should look sharp and clear. If you look at the target instead of the front sight post this could also contribute to the problem.
What you need to do as many have mentioned is practice good weapon handling skills. Good rest position with the weapon, good sight alignment, not breathing when shooting and a smooth trigger pull with out any flinching. I am not doubting you but just mentioning these important things. Then what I would do is get some newspaper or butcher paper and some thumb tacks and tac it to the entire face of the insulation board you mentioned. Then put your target on it and also have a permanent marker with you in black to mark the bullet holes in the paper after each string of fire until it is properly zeroed.
Then you will know for sure where your rounds are striking the target. As the guys have stated with your AR with Iron Sights at 25 yards draw a small X somewhere about 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 inches below the dead center bulls eye on the target. Aim at the dead center bulls eye when shooting. Make adjustments until while aiming and shooting at the bulls eye the bullet strikes on the small X below. This is the difference between line of bore and line of sight. So the impacts should be low at 25 yards due to the Line of Sight is around 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 Inches above the line of the bore at that distance. This should put you real close to being on at 50 and 100 Yards. Then using a good rest and practicing good techniques as above. Fire at least five rounds at 50 yards. Then check to see where the middle (center) of the 5 shot group area is and make adjustments accordingly. Then when satisfied go on back to 100 and repeat the sequence until you are zeroed to your satisfaction. You will want to zero with the rounds you are going to carry in the rifle. Other ammunition will have normally always shoot differently and strike off center. But as I mentioned before you must keep the barrel from having contact with the rest or bags during firing always it will change the impact point. Use good quality ammunition when you shoot. OH and one other thing. If you lube your barrel they will more than likely always shoot high on the first one or two rounds if that has happening to you. But I can not imagine the rifle shooting that bad. We will take it from there since there are a lot o knowledgeable people to help here on the FTF. As said making one inch grids also is a big help!

03
Hey snipe appreciate the info.

I would like to reiterate standing postion at 25 yards if I aim dead center of the bullseye the bullet is about 2 feet above it. That remains consistant from my observations.

Again basing off a ground level target where I have to aim 2 feet in front of it to actually hit the target.

I will try taking off the forward grip next time and resting that part on the sandbags see how that works.

As far as breathing I was told not to hold my breath when firing but to squeeze the trigger while exhaling slowly. The reason was explained to me that when you hold your breath you are putting strain on your muscles due to lack of oxygen thus how steady you are holding the weapon is effected. But when exhaling slowly your muscles relax into a comfort zone where they aren't straining to hold the weapon. I don't know if it's true but that is what was explained to me.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:40 PM   #24
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You need to find the impact at 50 and 100. What i typically do is get some posterboard and put an x in the middle to aim. Posterboard is a good 3x2 foot hard paper that should give you enough space to see where you ate hitting at 50.

If not, add another sheet above and below. But with 2 feet above center at 25 you'd expect to hit somewhere.

Also, you have to determine if you are missing left or right versus up and down. I personally think you are missing left or right and the gun is zero'd at 100 meters since you are 2 feet high at 25. If so, put the posterboard ways.

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Old 07-18-2012, 12:07 AM   #25
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You need to find the impact at 50 and 100. What i typically do is get some posterboard and put an x in the middle to aim. Posterboard is a good 3x2 foot hard paper that should give you enough space to see where you ate hitting at 50.

If not, add another sheet above and below. But with 2 feet above center at 25 you'd expect to hit somewhere.

Also, you have to determine if you are missing left or right versus up and down. I personally think you are missing left or right and the gun is zero'd at 100 meters since you are 2 feet high at 25. If so, put the posterboard ways.
I can't tell if the bullet is dog legging yet... I need to see a point of impact over 5 or 6 rounds to know if they stray left/right.

Right now I can't confirm anything.

I'm going shooting this weekend... gonna put some of this advice to the test see what I can come up with.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:09 AM   #26
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If by some miracle of god I hit something, I'll post some pics of the spread and such.... for more advice.

btw... I need 1 more bit of advice

Where the hell do I buy a tool to adjust my front barrel sight. Apparently I don't have the tool for it.

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Old 07-18-2012, 08:06 PM   #27
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Try J&G sales, Sarco inc, and Buy milsurp dott comm...

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Old 07-18-2012, 08:24 PM   #28
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Midway USA, Cheaperthandirt, etc

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:51 PM   #29
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Snipe had some GREAT info. Also, watch your sights and distance. Remember the AK is in meters. Do some math and make sure you don't have to "leap" your different meters on your irons. If you do not enjoy your irons invest in a cheap but good red dot and spend hours "zeroing" it in. Personally I am an iron sight guy. Shooting is something that takes time, I can see lots of progression from when I first started where I could not get a group for anything until now. I can get a dime's group with my 74.

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Old 07-22-2012, 07:39 PM   #30
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So went shooting this weekend as I said tried a few of the suggestions and things much improved. I was able to zero the gun.

I did not however zero it at 25 or 50 yards I zero'd it at 100 yards.

I know people said to do 25/50/100 consecutively but my arguement to that is

Why? The minimum range of this ironsight is zero'd at 100m. At 50 and 25 yards it doesn't matter what the sight tells me at those ranges.

In either case... I thought my nephew and I did very well considering.


Found out the point of impact was about 3-4 feet to the far upper right and way off target. So had to do a lot of left/right play with the rear sight... finally got it down to where my nephew and I were hitting much more consistantly. Binoculars helped out on this.

So these images are 100yards (91m) via ironsight

This first image is us trying to zero it in once we saw the first point of impact.



This 2nd one was after we felt pretty confident we had it zero'd pretty well. I believe the margin of error is just inexperience but if you figure it in terms of consistancy 50% of the shots hit a 12" target at 100yards through ironsights.



Thing that kinda made me giggle tho... The DNR person tells me you should be hitting a 2" spread at 100yards... For some reason I found this comical.

After going through the BS I went through to zero this... I just remember thinking with a scope sure, but I'm not using a scope.

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