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Old 07-13-2012, 06:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by orangello View Post
If you don't have another rifle in this same caliber, borrow one (and maybe a good rest or a sandbag) and see if it consistently hits the same spot nine times of ten. That will let you know if it might be inconsistent ammo.
Well in those videos I posted we were using sandbags and while we could'nt hit the 12 inch bullseye.... It's possible we were hitting the backdrop... but given the back drops nature it was impossible to tell where the hits occured.

But I'll probably use a white cardboard like you said just so I have a clean surface to see where they are hitting.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:04 PM   #12
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Maybe I'm not understanding what people mean by zero at 25 yards.

How exactly do you zero at 25 yards when the sight is gauged for 100m minimum?

At 25 yards the barrel sight will not be on the target at all or even remotely close to it. So to explain what I mean: @25 yards milk jug - Aim point is 2 feet in FRONT of a ground level target from the TOP of the barrel sight NOT aiming from the sight riser. From what I can tell there is a 6 inch point of interest at this range from a standing position. I'm taking into account my inexperience and lack of a steady hand.

Find the ballistics of your ammo or something close to it. Once you know the trajectory you can "zero" at 25 yards knowing how low the POI will be there for a 100 yard true zero. That should get you on paper to then really zero at 100. Of course use a rest, sandbag, etc.
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:11 PM   #13
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Was this a new or used rifle? If used or a surplus build, you could have a bad barrel.
Put a 3" red dot in the middle of a 4'x4' clean cardboard. At 25 yards see where you are impacting without changing the point of aim. Also verify that you have clean round holes. A sideways hole indicates key holing.

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Old 07-13-2012, 08:04 PM   #14
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Extreme accuracy with an AK or SKS is almost a moot point,

so forget "good" ammo. They were built for the M43 factory

surplus ammo.

Get a clear backdrop, see where your bullets are going.

On my AK, " 100 yard zero" is the third click on my rear sight

elevator, because my particular gun shoots low.

As someone else stated, start at 25 yards, then as you move out,

further distances(50 yards,75 yards, etc) see where your bullets

deflect, and make adjustments.

These guns neither have the range, nor were they designed for

extreme accuracy. So "good ammo" may be a waste, in many

circumstances. I merely accept my AK and SKSs do what they

do well, and forgive their range and accuracy issues.

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Old 07-14-2012, 03:48 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by JTJ View Post
Was this a new or used rifle? If used or a surplus build, you could have a bad barrel.
Put a 3" red dot in the middle of a 4'x4' clean cardboard. At 25 yards see where you are impacting without changing the point of aim. Also verify that you have clean round holes. A sideways hole indicates key holing.
New not factory surplus. All the M10's are like this far as I know.
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Old 07-14-2012, 03:55 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
Extreme accuracy with an AK or SKS is almost a moot point,

so forget "good" ammo. They were built for the M43 factory

surplus ammo.

Get a clear backdrop, see where your bullets are going.

On my AK, " 100 yard zero" is the third click on my rear sight

elevator, because my particular gun shoots low.

As someone else stated, start at 25 yards, then as you move out,

further distances(50 yards,75 yards, etc) see where your bullets

deflect, and make adjustments.

These guns neither have the range, nor were they designed for

extreme accuracy. So "good ammo" may be a waste, in many

circumstances. I merely accept my AK and SKSs do what they

do well, and forgive their range and accuracy issues.
Just an FYI, seen a video on youtube of someone hitting a 6" target from 600 yards with a scope. Not necessarily with the gun model I have but with an AK.
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
Extreme accuracy with an AK or SKS is almost a moot point,

so forget "good" ammo. They were built for the M43 factory

surplus ammo.

Get a clear backdrop, see where your bullets are going.

On my AK, " 100 yard zero" is the third click on my rear sight

elevator, because my particular gun shoots low.

As someone else stated, start at 25 yards, then as you move out,

further distances(50 yards,75 yards, etc) see where your bullets

deflect, and make adjustments.

These guns neither have the range, nor were they designed for

extreme accuracy. So "good ammo" may be a waste, in many

circumstances. I merely accept my AK and SKSs do what they

do well, and forgive their range and accuracy issues.
Just an FYI, seen a video on youtube of someone hitting a 6" target from 600 yards with a scope. Not necessarily with the gun model I have but with an AK.

Here's another video of a WASR10 with some VERY impressive accuracy as well. Granted I know I'm not as good as this guy is but... With the right understanding yes AK's can and will be very accurate. From a standing position From 25 yards to 300 yards. with ironsights.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/ak-47-video-67796/
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Old 07-15-2012, 02:16 PM   #18
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Yes, you CAN shoot very accurately with an AK, but this is not what they

were designed to do.

I've seen people drive 150MPH in a standard Buick, and get

alcohol poisoning from BEER, but that is not what either of these

two products were designed to do, either. I've seen the 600 yard

video, also, the reason, like many popular movies, that it's a

sensation, is it's somewhat of a departure from normalcy.


In the event you have high expectations for extreme accuracy for your

AKM, best of luck to you. You may want to consider high-end ammo

from Norma, Speer, or Hornady, in that event.

The M43 round is designed for a 400 yard range, and the guns designed to

shoot it, the AK and SKS, were for infantry purposes. When a

Lieutenant can order a squad or platoon to fire a massed volley in your

direction, how accurate does the average gun have to be?

Obviously, loose tolerances, dependability, and built in cleaning kits

were much more important to the Russian M.O.D. when these designs

were adopted, chosen over half a dozen more accurate types.

Arguably, certain people can shoot certain AKs very accurately. I can also

detail the interior of my car with toothpicks and sani-wipes, too.

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Old 07-15-2012, 06:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therewolf View Post
Yes, you CAN shoot very accurately with an AK, but this is not what they

were designed to do.

I've seen people drive 150MPH in a standard Buick, and get

alcohol poisoning from BEER, but that is not what either of these

two products were designed to do, either. I've seen the 600 yard

video, also, the reason, like many popular movies, that it's a

sensation, is it's somewhat of a departure from normalcy.


In the event you have high expectations for extreme accuracy for your

AKM, best of luck to you. You may want to consider high-end ammo

from Norma, Speer, or Hornady, in that event.

The M43 round is designed for a 400 yard range, and the guns designed to

shoot it, the AK and SKS, were for infantry purposes. When a

Lieutenant can order a squad or platoon to fire a massed volley in your

direction, how accurate does the average gun have to be?

Obviously, loose tolerances, dependability, and built in cleaning kits

were much more important to the Russian M.O.D. when these designs

were adopted, chosen over half a dozen more accurate types.

Arguably, certain people can shoot certain AKs very accurately. I can also

detail the interior of my car with toothpicks and sani-wipes, too.

lol well considering most RL scenerios occur at far less than 100 yards... Apparently they have to be very accurate which is the ultimate problem.

25 yards fine

50 yards lol not a chance

100 yards "is that a bullseye or a mirage?"


I have people giving me mis-information is all and I'm trying to sort out the BS from the facts.

No there is no 2 inch drop from 100 yards to 50 yards.

And no there is no additional 2 inch drop from 100 yards to 25 yards.

So like I said... I'm trying to ween out the bad advice from the good advice.

What the gun is designed to do I already know... I shoot for fun not to kill someone at close range. So if I have to spend another $1000 to convert the gun to the way I want to have fun then so be it.

It's not always about function as much as "I wonder if I can do this?"

As I said in my original post I'm not here to be critiqued I'm here for advice.

My first time at an official range, and I realize just how many people have no idea what they are talking about.

I got people at the range telling me to aim higher at 50 yards above dead center.

Is it that hard of a concept to understand closer range means you aim lower on the target?

This lead me to believe either 1. These people never zero their own guns and 2. Might have even paid to have them zero'd for them.

Which basically means there are more scrubs out there shooting guns and I shouldn't feel so left out because I can't hit spit at 50 or 100 yards.

My ultimate problem isn't rather or not the gun is doing what it's supposed to be doing... in fact it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do... I just have to tweak it for my style and comfort zone... and that is what I'm having the problem with.

But it's blatant mis-information to assume AK's are not accurate there are plenty of facts to the contrary.

It's also a blatant mis-information as to how reliable AK's are (The Legend) The fact is they are no more reliable than any other rifle.

I've seen videos of an AR15 with more reliability than an AK when burried and pouring dirt/sand/mud on them.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:50 PM   #20
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When I need to sight in a rifle I do the following:

1) boresight the gun (a laser boresighter saves a lot of ammo cost)

2) attach a target with 1 inch grids onto a large piece of card board and start at 25 yards to make sure I am "on paper". If necessary make adjustments to get close to bull's eye. A little low is good. When I am close enough that I have no doubt I will be on paper I move to the next distance.

3) attach new target grid to cardboard and move to 50 yards, make any necessary adjustments. When I am close enough that I have no doubt I will be on paper I move to the next distance.

4) attach new target to cardboard and move to 100 yards, my scoped hunting rifles I set to be two inches (squares) high, dead center on windage at this distance.

Using my eyes, for an AK, SKS with iron sights I would be happy with putting all rounds in a pie plate at 100 yards. YMMV

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