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-   -   Just need some advice (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/just-need-some-advice-68149/)

FlukeLSX 07-13-2012 04:31 PM

Just need some advice
 
I don't particularly care for critique at this point. I do not claim to be an expert or pretend to be one.

I am having some issues with... well how do I put this delicately.

HITTING A GOD DAMN ****ING THING!

k

@ 25 yards I have no problem hitting milk jugs.

@ 50 yards I cannot hit a 12 inch bullseye

@ 100 yards I cannot hit a 12 inch bullseye (This I was expecting)

I spent 140 rounds trying to find out where the bullets were hitting.... and couldn't tell where they were htiting.

The target backdrop was the blue styrofoam insulation. So with all the ef'ing holes in it already I could not tell which holes were from my gun.

Zeroing this thing is becoming more of a chore than I thought. Though, despite not being able to hit the broad side of a barn... I still enjoyed shooting it.

Soo,

Here's the dilema that I need some advice with.

Aiming dead center yielded - 0 hits on 12 inch bullseye @ 50 yards and 100 yards.

The gun is sighted for 100m. For those that don't know 100 yards = 91m

For those who told me the difference between 50 yards and 100 yards is 2 inches are completely wrong. And to those same people who still insist this to be accurate information. The difference from 50 yards to 25 yards is NOT an additional 2 inches either. Maybe AFTER it's zero'd it might be but certainly not before.


Shooting from iron sight:

First to explain, when I first shot this gun @ 25 yards I could hit milk jugs at ground level without any issues. Aiming down the barrel for this gun right now is: 2 feet in front of a ground level target from the TOP of the barrel sight (not the middle of it).

With that information I attempted 50 yards. I started dead center, and moved down by 6" intervals on the bullseye and backdrop. I did NOT hit the bullseye at all. I went as far down as 2 feet below the red dot in the middle of the bullseye using the center of the barrel sight.

Now at 100 yards I lessend that drop knowing the gun should be more zeored for 100 yards than 50. Again I started dead center, nothing... dropped down by the same distance from red dot center and still did not hit the 12 inch x 12 inch bullseye at all.

Now it is possible we were hitting the backdrop however with all the holes in the backdrop it was impossible to tell which holes were left by my gun.

I was thinking about getting a plain white poster board next time just to find out where the hell the bullets are going and covering the entire backdrop.

I feel I cannot zero this sight without knowing where the bullets are hitting first. And I can't figure out where to aim at these various ranges without knowing where the bullets are hitting.

Would this be the best way to start with zero'ing the rifle for 100yards since you can't zero it at less than that via iron sight?

Here's a couple of short video clips. And I'm sorry for the quality and lack of sound. ****ty camera... I will be getting a better one soon so that I can analyze the shots easier.

Both clips shot by my newhew at 100 yard range:



Both my nephew and myself felt we were more accurate at 100 yards than 50 but neither of us could hit the bullseye at either range.

Quentin 07-13-2012 05:14 PM

I couldn't wade through all that but how about zeroing on paper to see where POI is. Of course start at 25 yards then use larger targets at longer distance. What caliber/model gun/ammo? An AK can easily be 6MOA or more with some ammo.

mountainman13 07-13-2012 05:26 PM

As stated zero at 25 yards. Then get a new target and empty an entire mag into it at 25 yards to make sure it's holding zero. Then move to 50 and repeat then 75 then 100

FlukeLSX 07-13-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 868545)
I couldn't wade through all that but how about zeroing on paper to see where POI is. Of course start at 25 yards then use larger targets at longer distance. What caliber/model gun/ammo? An AK can easily be 6MOA or more with some ammo.

7.62x39 Ammo 123gr FMJ Klimovsk Russian 1000 Round Case

Romanian M10

FlukeLSX 07-13-2012 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman13 (Post 868556)
As stated zero at 25 yards. Then get a new target and empty an entire mag into it at 25 yards to make sure it's holding zero. Then move to 50 and repeat then 75 then 100

Maybe I'm not understanding what people mean by zero at 25 yards.

How exactly do you zero at 25 yards when the sight is gauged for 100m minimum?

At 25 yards the barrel sight will not be on the target at all or even remotely close to it. So to explain what I mean: @25 yards milk jug - Aim point is 2 feet in FRONT of a ground level target from the TOP of the barrel sight NOT aiming from the sight riser. From what I can tell there is a 6 inch point of interest at this range from a standing position. I'm taking into account my inexperience and lack of a steady hand.

orangello 07-13-2012 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin (Post 868545)
What caliber/model gun/ammo? An AK can easily be 6MOA or more with some ammo.

I wouldn't sight in with surplus or the cheapo ammo. I would start with a clean/hole-free piece of white cardboard backing the target.

FlukeLSX 07-13-2012 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello (Post 868580)
I wouldn't sight in with surplus or the cheapo ammo. I would start with a clean/hole-free piece of white cardboard backing the target.

Soo what determines cheap ammo from expensive ammo

Bad ammo vs good.

Of all the research I've done I've never seen factual evidence pointing me one way or the other.

I've shot about 500 rds now out of this 1000 rd case and haven't had a single one fail on me.

Even when it jams I reload the round back into the mag and it fires.

Of course I've heard people suggest that more expensive ammo yields better accuracy but as I said I have yet to see factual evidence of this.

orangello 07-13-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlukeLSX (Post 868593)
I've shot about 500 rds now out of this 1000 rd case and haven't had a single one fail on me.

Even when it jams I reload the round back into the mag and it fires.

With those 500 rounds and another rifle, were you consistently hitting what you were aiming at? If so, it is probably decently consistently loaded and would be what i consider "good" ammo.

Inconsistent loading is the complaint i hear the most about the Bear & Wolf ammos versus Winchester, Federal, PMC, etc.

FlukeLSX 07-13-2012 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orangello (Post 868600)
With those 500 rounds and another rifle, were you consistently hitting what you were aiming at? If so, it is probably decently consistently loaded and would be what i consider "good" ammo.

Inconsistent loading is the complaint i hear the most about the Bear & Wolf ammos versus Winchester, Federal, PMC, etc.

I don't have any other guns. This is my first one.

Well I've never used those other brands yet... but as I said I have not had a single round fail to fire. Jam yes, fail to fire no not yet anyways.

And when it does jam, it's always when I start off with the first clip. But I noticed a possible issue with the bolt carrier that may be causing the load issue.

Bolt carrier wasn't going all the way forward I had to play with it a little bit to get it to move foward once it did and once it fired I did not have a single problem with any subseqent rounds after that.

I then took the first round or 2 that jam'd ran it through the mag and they fired as well.

orangello 07-13-2012 06:40 PM

If you don't have another rifle in this same caliber, borrow one (and maybe a good rest or a sandbag) and see if it consistently hits the same spot nine times of ten. That will let you know if it might be inconsistent ammo.


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