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-   -   Flat Top AK (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/flat-top-ak-36281/)

Boba_Debt 01-01-2011 04:29 PM

Flat Top AK
 
I'm working on the 3rd version of a Flat Top AK concept and have decided to go with this arrangement of parts. I use a UTG Quad Rail for the front and a DPH Arms Beryl Rail for the back.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...AK/FTAK001.jpg


This should allow me to mount a Red Dot, Magnifyer and BUIS and hopefully they will co-witness.


For those that don't know what the Beryl Rail System is I will try to clarify it (for those that are smarter then me please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

It is a rear rail system the the Polish military first used.

DPH Arms came out with a simple $40 rail. The front fit into the rear sight mount and the back was held in place with the back butt stock screw. The problem was that to field strip the rifle you had to remove the screw with a tool and repeated removals wore out the threads in the stock.

So DPH Arms made a second version that had quick release system. Unfortunately it was pretty complicated and just about quadruples the cost of the rail. TWS also has a quick release system for their version but it's also 4x the cost of the original $40 DPH Arms Beryl Rail.

I like the simplicity of the DPH Arms Basic Beryl Rail but to make it more usable I had to figure out a way to make removing it easier then removing a screw with a tool.

I looked at couple different options and settled on using a 2600 Series 1/4 Turn Fastener know as a Camloc.

This is a bailed version of the fastener with a threaded receptacle sold by Skybolt

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...AK/Skybolt.jpg


I was able to get it to work on one of my Flat Tops

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...AK/FTAK002.jpg


It was simple to install. I drilled and tapped the stock for the 1/2-13 threaded receptacle, applied some epoxy to the threads and installed it. Then before it cured I used the Bailed Camloc Fastener to adjust the receptacle to the correct orientation and depth.

This method should also work on wood stocks.

If you need to field strip the rifle you flip up the bail, rotate it 1/4 turn and it releases. The the whole rail flips up. When your done the rail locks in place and zero should be retained.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...AK/FTAK003.jpg


For those that think I'm just trying to sell something, I'm not.

I'm just letting people know about it.

I know some people have this $40 rail and have probably removed it due to the inconvenience it causes.

These fasteners are used in the aviation industry. I guess when a company like Boeing needs a specific type of fastener in a specific length the Skybolt or Milspec makes them and then sells all of them to the company that needed them. I found a couple places that had the part available but they wanted Federal Govt prices for each part. $39 for the Camlock Fastener and $20+ for the receptacle. Which IMO makes it cost prohibitive to use this system.

I actually need 2 sets of the proper hardware for both of my Flat Tops. The pictured rifle has a working system but only one company had Bailed Camloc Fasteners available and the longest length was a #7. To make it work correctly with the rail and the receptacle I needed a #15. BUT for the prototyping purposes I just reduced the length of the receptacle by 75%. I would rather have a complete receptacle in the butt stock for added strength.

Hopefully DPH Arms will like the idea and buy a bulk lot of the fasteners from one of the suppliers and offer them with their rails and offer a fastener kit for people to retrofit their rifles if they already have the rail.

Worst case scenario I would be willing to get a group buy together for the fasteners and offer them for a little over cost but that would be a last resort.

I'm going to start an email group to keep interested people in the loop about any developments.

If you want to be part of my group send an email to bobadebt@ec.rr.com and please put "CamLoc" on the subject line and the following info in the body

Forum you emailing me from
Your Forum ID
Real name


Thanks

Ruzai 01-04-2011 07:53 AM

Thats a lot of work for a flat top or optic rail, if you could simplify the process I"m sure there are several that would be willing to buy into it. However there still is another problem, how well does the rail hold up with heavy scopes like say a full sized 3-9x30mm scope? That's the $300 question since the Krebs rail already proved itself with that question.

GunNut 01-06-2011 12:39 AM

Looks like you are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear to me.

canebrake 01-06-2011 12:49 AM

This you?

AK TACTICAL SCOPE MOUNT TRI-RAIL W/ QUAD RAIL HANDGUARD - eBay (item 250751035620 end time Feb-01-11 04:30:10 PST)

AK 3-RAIL SCOPE MOUNT 7.62x39 **NEW** - eBay (item 300479061308 end time Jan-07-11 18:29:58 PST)

AK 7.62x39 TACTICAL SCOPE MOUNT W/TRI-RAIL - eBay (item 250746687929 end time Jan-22-11 18:25:53 PST)

Boba_Debt 01-06-2011 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruzai (Post 414789)
Thats a lot of work for a flat top or optic rail, if you could simplify the process I"m sure there are several that would be willing to buy into it. However there still is another problem, how well does the rail hold up with heavy scopes like say a full sized 3-9x30mm scope? That's the $300 question since the Krebs rail already proved itself with that question.

It wasn't really that much work, now that I have the process down I could make the mod in less then 30 minutes.

I'm sure the rail would work with just about any scope but I'll be happy with a Microdot and a 3x magnifier.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GunNut (Post 415919)
Looks like you are trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear to me.

I donít follow. I found a way to make a $40 rail just as accessible as other rails that cost 4x as much. I would say that if someone put a $170 rail on a $400 rifle, they would be guilty of what you are saying.



Quote:

Originally Posted by canebrake (Post 415926)
This you?

No, I go by Boba Debt on eBay and Gunbroker.

I donít know why anyone would add more to the a DPH Arms rail but to each his own.

Boba_Debt 01-06-2011 01:52 AM

Here is an even simpler way to do this for less then a $1


A threaded rod that mounted in the stock and a Knurled nut to secure it.


http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...AK/FTAK004.jpg



I'm going to test it both ways

Ruzai 01-07-2011 06:31 AM

That second method seems a bit easier since you dont have to make it a specific orientation and might not cost near as much as buying from a specialized seller. What's needed for the second method?

Boba_Debt 01-07-2011 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruzai (Post 416808)
That second method seems a bit easier since you dont have to make it a specific orientation and might not cost near as much as buying from a specialized seller. What's needed for the second method?

A 10-32 threaded rod held in place with just a touch of epoxy and a 10-32 knurled nut which I bought at Lowes in the specialized hardware drawers

Ruzai 01-10-2011 04:18 AM

Thanks, I'll have to try that if I come across a good deal on the Beryl style rail at a gunshow. Course I'll have to use a different stock converter than what I'm using right now. I figure I'll end up epoxy-ing the hell out of the rod so it'll stay nicely in place since there's a cavity in the one's I use.


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