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-   -   first time shooting. now in the search (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/first-time-shooting-now-search-65363/)

jjfuller1 05-29-2012 01:12 PM

first time shooting. now in the search
 
so i went out shooting with a few buddies of mine saturday. one of them had an AK47. i liked shooting it and so did my wife. she also gave me permission to buy one now. hehe.

so not knowing what i need to look for and whats legal for NYS. do any of you have helpful hints at what i should be looking for and what is allowable?

thanks

jjfuller1 05-29-2012 11:45 PM

Stopped at the LGS today. I found some good info. Due to prices I'll be getting wasr 10 sometime soon unless some finally replies with any negatives about them

FlukeLSX 05-30-2012 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjfuller1 (Post 818363)
Stopped at the LGS today. I found some good info. Due to prices I'll be getting wasr 10 sometime soon unless some finally replies with any negatives about them

WASR's have a bad rep from the research I've done... I think it's a matter of opinion tbh.... I know I've read people that would swear by them and others who wouldn't let their 5 year olds near them. (Not that anyone should anyways)

Far as AK's are concerned.

Since their inception there are 4 major types.

Type 1 - 1946-1952 - Stamp'd receiver (The originally designed AK47's)
Type 2 - 1952-1974 - Milled receiver
Type 3 - 1974+ - Final version of milled receiver
Type 4 - Modern day AK 47's dubbed AKM, AKMS, AKS (Stamped receivers)

Type 1's are EXTREMELY rare don't even bother trying to find them.
Type 2's rare and expensive
Type 3's more common and mostly used.
Type 4's like a kid in a candy store they are everywhere.

Personally, I've researched AK's since 1947 to current, and the one that I kept going back to was the Romanian M10 AKM. They had the most versitility along with the best bang for the buck no punn intended of course.

I've looked into 7.62mm vs 5.56mm. The difference between the two is penetration power. The 556's are more accurate, but a 7.62 is designed to penetrate vests and walls. If you are looking for accuracy the 556 is the way to go otherwise if you just don't care then 7.62's are another option.

The only reason 556's are considered better is because of their lack of penetration power, and their infamous tumbling effect when fired. They are designed to enter the human body and stay there doing damage along the way bouncing off bone etc. Where a 7.62 will go through the body and shatter bone. They consider 556's more desirable because of killing power compared to 7.62. But if you had to shoot through a wall to hit a target it... 7.62 or go home. 7.62's have various rounds some people report FMJ's are better ammo for AK's where holotip etc tend to fail to fire/jam/etc in AK's. AK's were not designed orginally to fire specialty rounds like the 556's were. That however, does not mean they cannot fire specialty rounds.

Now you can get some relatively cheap AK's $400 range, however the M10 ranges $600-$800 depending on where you shop. I got mine for $695 with a case and mounted top cover rail $750 out the door and they mounted the top cover rail for free.

These prices are rumor'd to skyrocket on AK's if Obama is reelected for 2012. Rather this happens or not I dunno. What I read is that Obama wants to make the importation of these rifles illegal. The M10 is imported from Romania.

The only company I found that actually has them in stock right now is Sovereign Guns in North Carolina which is where I bought mine. They are pretty laid back people and helpful. Had no ordering issues or customer service issues at all with them.

They also have some other AK variants... Hungarian AMD65's (All came with Wire side folding stocks) They told me they had like 20 or 30 of these. They went for about $595 each.

I was going to purchase the AMD65 one first, then I realized they are not very customizable which again led me back to the M10. They were originally designed to be shot from a moving vehicle not stationary such as a rifle range for accuracy.

Watch out for "Purist" websites. They will condone everything under the sun that doesn't have a milled receiver. Most of them don't know the original AK47 started with a stamped receiver.

There is one manufacturer who does specifically make milled receivers and sells milled AK's. I don't remember the name and it would probably take some research to find it again.

After reading the Purist websites and the animosity it had... I came to the realization an AK is an AK. Rather stamp'd receiver or milled they perform the same as one would expect.

No matter which way you go it wouldn't be a wrong choice, more of a matter of preference what you plan to do with it.

But do your homework in that regard.... They are not as easy to find as people think online. Most sites I've researched have very few in stock. And if the one you want isn't in stock none of them have an ordering process to follow to accquire the one you want.

Well my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps.

therewolf 05-30-2012 04:42 PM

There's a lot of WASR GP-10s out there.

A very popular AKM.

You could do a lot worse.

Avoid an underfolder, or side-folder, until you try them at a range.

Good luck. Use J&G sales for a purchasing comparison reference.

You may want to order from them. They have a decent deal on ammo

shipped.

Shoobee 05-30-2012 05:22 PM

So if you are tired of the AR platforms due to your USMC past experience, and you want to try something new, that would be a temptation to gravitate towards an AK. You may be disappointed at the AK's performance downrange however. You probably already take AR performance for granted, however you will be surprised how bad by comparison the AKs are. That's the first main drawback.

You can get better performance than an AK with a Ruger Mini. The Ruger Mini-30 gives you everything that an AK can do plus better accuracy downrange.

http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html

So if it is the cartridge you are in love with, the Ruger Mini-30 is a superior weapon and more accurate, with a more reliable M-1 open bolt design. Thus if you fire hollow points or soft points and one jams, you can easily un-jam the Ruger but not the AK.

The Ruger mini preserves the M-1 bolt design, whereas the AK has a closed bolt like the original Italian and German sturmgewehr of the 1940s and like the AR platforms of the 1950s to present. The open bolt design is easy to unjam. The closed bolt is not.

If I were in love with this cartridge, then I would get the Ruger. That gives you a superior weapon plus access to a lot of cheap Chinese and Russian ammo for it.

So thumbs down on the AK and thumbs up on the Ruger for 7.62x39mm for all those reasons.

MikeJK 05-30-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoobee (Post 819178)
So if you are tired of the AR platforms due to your USMC past experience, and you want to try something new, that would be a temptation to gravitate towards an AK. You may be disappointed at the AK's performance downrange however. You probably already take AR performance for granted, however you will be surprised how bad by comparison the AKs are. That's the first main drawback.

You can get better performance than an AK with a Ruger Mini. The Ruger Mini-30 gives you everything that an AK can do plus better accuracy downrange.

http://www.ruger.com/products/miniThirty/models.html

So if it is the cartridge you are in love with, the Ruger Mini-30 is a superior weapon and more accurate, with a more reliable M-1 open bolt design. Thus if you fire hollow points or soft points and one jams, you can easily un-jam the Ruger but not the AK.

The Ruger mini preserves the M-1 bolt design, whereas the AK has a closed bolt like the original Italian and German sturmgewehr of the 1940s and like the AR platforms of the 1950s to present. The open bolt design is easy to unjam. The closed bolt is not.

If I were in love with this cartridge, then I would get the Ruger. That gives you a superior weapon plus access to a lot of cheap Chinese and Russian ammo for it.

So thumbs down on the AK and thumbs up on the Ruger for 7.62x39mm for all those reasons.

I don't agree.

If he likes the AK47 that's probably what he should get. The AK is a great rifle for the job it was designed for. Plenty accurate, easy to use, maintain, clear malfunctions, etc.

What's a jam?

dog2000tj 05-30-2012 06:40 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeJK (Post 819208)
What's a jam?

You never had jam before? :(



:p

Shoobee 05-30-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog2000tj (Post 819254)
You never had jam before? :(



:p

Thanks for clarifying that for him, Dog.

I am guessing he does not know what a jam is.

And that he has never seen an M-1 bolt either.

:D

MikeJK 05-30-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoobee (Post 819255)
Thanks for clarifying that for him, Dog.

I am guessing he does not know what a jam is.

And that he has never seen an M-1 bolt either.

:D

Yes thanks dog2000tj :D

I prefer strawberry jam. I love me some strawberries. YUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM!!

I do not like malfunctions though. I hate them. I hate them a lot. GGGGRRRRRR :mad:

Shoobee you are probably correct in your recomendation. With all your secret training (H2H and weapons) you have got to be right.

Would a "M-1" bolt be anything like what you would find in the M14s we had in OEF?

Make claims of grandeur you can't back up and you become a target.

7.62 Man 05-30-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlukeLSX (Post 818511)
Personally, I've researched AK's since 1947 to current, and the one that I kept going back to was the Romanian M10 AKM. They had the most versitility along with the best bang for the buck no punn intended of course.

I've looked into 7.62mm vs 5.56mm. The difference between the two is penetration power. The 556's are more accurate, but a 7.62 is designed to penetrate vests and walls. If you are looking for accuracy the 556 is the way to go otherwise if you just don't care then 7.62's are another option.

The only reason 556's are considered better is because of their lack of penetration power, and their infamous tumbling effect when fired. They are designed to enter the human body and stay there doing damage along the way bouncing off bone etc. Where a 7.62 will go through the body and shatter bone. They consider 556's more desirable because of killing power compared to 7.62.

I agree with 99% of your post but I think you are mistaken or you meant to say 5.45x39 not 5.56x45. It was the Russian 5.45x39 that was called the poison bullet because it tumbles upon hitting the human body.
Here is a little info on this round. Read the part that starts with Wounding Effects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9739mm

And here is the other statement that I was concerned about.
Quote:

Originally Posted by FlukeLSX (Post 818511)
But if you had to shoot through a wall to hit a target it... 7.62 or go home.

This is a quote from the link above.
"The 7N6 bullet has a 1.43 g (22.1 gr) steel rod penetrator. Since 1987 this penetrator is hardened to 60 HRC. The latter 7N6 cartridge can penetrate a 6 mm thick St3 steel plate at 300 m and 6Zh85T body armour at 80 m. 7N6 bullets have a red identification ring above the cartridge neck."
I have had it to shoot through 1/2" steel at 100yds so it will penetrate.
Most of the surplus ammo out today is the 7N6 you can get it just about everywhere.
If you read up on this 5.45x39 ammo you will see that the AK74 is made to fire specialty rounds.
Keep up the good research! ;)


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