Is an AK really that bad? - Page 3
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessdragon View Post
can i get a pic of the proper stance and holding position of an ak pretty please? and yes i am serious :-D


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Old 01-21-2013, 02:12 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by TexasRog
Lets see...if you live in a cave in the mountains in Iraq and have that or a rock to throw at your American "friends" you think the AK47 is a great weapon. When your buddies are toast, you can take their ammo and keep up the fight. Now is your gun absolete..I think not. You have in your hand the greatest rifle in the world, because it could save your life or end your enemies and it will shoot in a rainstorm or a dust storm. I had a SKS. Workmanship is a piece of crap, stamped out, cast iron nothin..but it will shoot like a champ. Now is it a good rifle? It will never be a Remington 700 but it does spit lead.
Well I'm not saying the AK is a bad weapon. I would prefer my AR. But if you put it that way a mossberg 702 would be a good weapon in that situation. ( any gun is better than a rock when your getting shot at)
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by locutus View Post
The AK-74 is a great rifle. That 5.54X39 round packs a pnch.

The AK-47 is obsolescent.
I agree wih the above statement but I think we also need to educate folks on the distinction between obsolete and obsolescent when it comes to weapons systems aqcuistion.

Obsolete: a System's benefit is not worth the effort to operate+ maintain it, even if you already possess it.

Example: a WW1 batteleship. No navy would operate one as an actual fighting ship, as the huge crew and coal needs combined with slow repsonse and limited weapons system ranges and no AA make it not effective enough to justify the effort (even if you possess one in good working order).

Obsolescent: a FFG class frigate (70's). If you have one in good operational shape it may well be worth to operate it, as the combat power you get from it, while less than a modern design may be worth your crew, ammo and fuel costs.
Many countries still operate them, especially those with lower crew costs than USN.
BUT its not worth it to build a new frigate to this design anymore, as the same amount of resources it takes to build a FFG7 class, can be used to build a more modern frigate.
So this makes an FFG7 not obsolete but obsolescent.

For aircraft:

A Mirage 2000 for example is obsolscent but very clearly not obsolete, as many countries still use it proudly even though new airframes have not been made in years.

For firearms:

An AK-47 as produced to the original late 40's design is obsolescent but not obsolete , since if you had one for free it would still be worth your time and ammo cost to use it.
But if you are an arms manufacturer you would not produce any new rifles to that design.

An AK-74 on the other hand is neither obsolete nor obsolescent.

A german MP40 from WW2, is obsolescnet but not obsolete, meaning if you had a good working one for free it might be worth your while to use it.. but Heckler and Koch is not going to make brand new ones for military use.

A Pistole 08 the so called "Luger" is a wonderful psitol and if you had a good working one in your house you mgiht use it.
It is accurate with a good trigger feel.
it might even be good enough to use as your primary weapon. But if you are an arms manufacturer you will not produce such a complex design as a new pistol. no one would buy it for the expensive new price it would cost to equip users.

As a matter if fact during WW2 it was already obsolescent (but not obsolete). The germans stopped making it, but kept using it for first line use.

And that is the litmus test whether something is obsolscent: Manufacters stopped making it, but people do (or could) still use it for first line use.

But when you hear people say. Oh Army X is using an obsolete Tank they are likely wrong, since no military would ever use a truly obsolete weapon.
The fact that they still use it ,makes it obsolescent rather than obsolete.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:33 AM   #24
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bluez... your post reminds me of this...



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Old 01-21-2013, 03:34 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
The AK-74 is a great rifle. That 5.54X39 round packs a pnch.

The AK-47 is obsolescent.
Like locutus says The AK74 is an accurate rifle out to about 400yds.
Shooting at 300yds even my girl friend can immediate other male shooters by ringing the gongs on every shot. The AK47 has great stopping power but out past 200 yds you really have to hold it tight to get a group on paper.
They do what they were designed to do, how good was the AR15 in 1947......right it wasn't thought of yet!
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by theeuropeangoth View Post
They say that the AK is obsolete.They say that the AK is inaccurate.They say that the AK is heavy.They say AK round is uneffective.They say they that the AK operating mechanism makes the rifle uncontrolable.

Actually, many people have many bad things to say about the AK platform.
But how many of them are true?

Let's examine some facts:
1)They say that the AK is obsolete
It can be easely and rapidly upgraded with rails system(almost on any part of the rifle), new handguards, muzzle brake, recoil reducing buttstock, new sights,different safety.You can keep the good characteristics of the rifle and improve the bad ones(Like the so-called ''un-controlability'', muzzle climb,etc....including bad habits...yes, many people don't even know how to hold/handle it...and then they say that the rifle is not accurate)
2)They say that the AK is inaccurate
Modern warfare consists in fighting at a distance 150-350m (160-382yds).For the records:Using any rifle with iron sights or other optics(Red dot, ACOG, Holographic,etc) which were not made for accurate/long range shooting(Usually, they're (sniper) scopes o similar optics) at a distance above 200m, is simply stupid(A waste of ammo).An AK can be used to shoot a target placed at 200m away.You don't need anything more than this.You don't believe it?Ask the Spetznaz and the best and well-trained armies/units around the world.
3)They say AK is heavy
What do you mean with ''Heavy''?The majority of assult rifles has a weight between 3.1 and 4.7(Depending on the model, ammo and design)kgs.An Ak pattern rifle can weigh from 2.1 kg(e.g. Galil ACE) to 4.1 kg(I'm just taking in consideration the assault rifles).Is that really that ''heavy''?
4)They say AK round is uneffective
Uneffective?It can pierce several human bodies,concrete blocks and many body armors(till level 3 protection).Do you have some complains regaring the bad ration between penetration and stopping power/Lethality?Try m67 ammo, developed by Serbs to make the 7,62 more destructive and behave like the 5.56x45.
5)The rifle is uncontrolable, especially during rapid fire/full auto
The AKs were ''designed'' as a ''machinegun''/''submachinegun''.Even Kalashnikov calls it ''Submachinegun''(Even if it has more characteristic of an assualt rifle, than a smg).It is not a carbine, it is not a sniper rifle, it is not hunting rifle.So you have to hold it properly to obtain the maximum performace.Many people simply don't hold/handle the weapon well or shoot the rifle by holding the shooting position/stance in the wrong way.The AKs have a long-stroke piston attached to the carrier, and it goes violently backward and forward.It's true...but you can minimize the effects by holding/handling properly the weapon, by holding correctly the shooting position and, obviously, with some practice.

Am I the only one who thinks so?
Apparently our "harmless" hunting guns aren't so harmless...

All guns are potentially deadly weapons and should be treated as so. With respect and safe handling.


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Old 01-21-2013, 03:50 AM   #27
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Though I'm partial to the AR Platform, I find my AK variant to be dead nuts reliable, reasonably accurate, and get more knockdown power to boot.

No complaints with the AK...just took a couple of them Spetnatz videos to learn how to reload it quickly...and yes, it can be reloaded faster than an AR in any position other than prone.

Tack

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Old 01-21-2013, 04:16 AM   #28
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I have heard some say that the AK74 doesn't have the penetration they want.
Unless they are trying to shoot through solid concrete walls it should have plenty of penetration.
Pull up the link & page down to the part that says "Enhanced penetration cartridges" & read.
Most of the surplus out there is the 7N6 type.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9739mm

To get the AK74 to penetrate requires a special ammo, not the cheap after market stuff.

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Old 01-21-2013, 05:30 AM   #29
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My Pre-Ban AKM 47 semiauto. I have owned a number of these over the years. They are not in the class of the AR-15 platform. To compare an AK to an AR is like comparing a 1903A3 Spfld. to an M-1 Garand.

ak.png  
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #30
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This a better picture of the Pre-Ban

akm-47.jpg  
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