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-   -   AK kaboom (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/ak-kaboom-34556/)

indyfan 11-19-2010 09:30 PM

AK kaboom
 
I don't think I've ever seen an AK kaboom. Can anyone explain what happened here?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2121408

JonM 11-20-2010 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indyfan (Post 389068)
I don't think I've ever seen an AK kaboom. Can anyone explain what happened here?

Jihadi misfire, AK47 go boom - AnandTech Forums

ive seen em blow out the mags from overheat. but that wasnt what happened. prolly the cia or some other agency distributing explosive laced ammo into their supplies. its been a dirty trick since ww1.

GunNut 11-21-2010 10:20 PM

To back up JonM here is par of a story from one of Major John Plastrer's books:

“Project Eldest Son” fascinating story from Vietnam War

During the Vietnam War, the Studies And Observations Group (SOG) created an ingenious top-secret program called Project Eldest Son to wreak general mayhem and cause the Viet Cong and NVA to doubt the safety of their guns and ammunition.

Amid a firefight near the Cambodian border on June 6, 1968, a North Vietnamese Army soldier spotted an American G.I. raising his rifle, and the NVA infantryman pulled his trigger, anticipating a muzzle blast.

United States 1st Infantry Division troops later found the enemy soldier, sprawled beside his Chinese Type 56 AK, quite dead - - but not from small-arms fire. Peculiarly, they could see, his rifle had exploded, its shattered receiver killing him instantly. It seemed a great mystery that his AK had blown up since nothing was blocking the bore. Bad metallurgy, the G.I.s concluded, or possibly defective ammo. It was neither.

In reality, this actual incident was the calculated handiwork of one the Vietnam War's most secret and least understood covert operations: Project Eldest Son. So secret was this sabotage effort that few G.I.s in Southeast Asia ever heard of it or the organization behind it, the innocuously named Studies and Observations Group. As the Vietnam War's top-secret special ops task force, SOG's operators - - Army Special Forces, Air Force Air Commandos and Navy SEALs - - worked directly for the Joint Chiefs, executing highly classified, deniable missions in the enemy's backyard of Laos, Cambodia and North Vietnam.

Though obscure, this trick was not new. In the 1930s, to combat rebellious tribesmen in northwest India's Waziristan - - the same lawless region where Taliban and al Qaeda terrorists hide today - - the British army planted sabotaged .303 rifle ammunition. Even before that, during the Second Metabele War (1896-97) in today's Zimbabwe, British scouts (led by the American adventurer Frederick Russell Burnham) had slipped explosive-packed rifle cartridges into hostile stockpiles, to deadly effect. SOG would do likewise, the Joint Chiefs decided on August 30, 1967, but first Col. Singlaub arranged for CIA ordnance experts to conduct a quick feasibility study.

After that success began a month of tedious bullet pulling to manually disassemble thousands of 7.62 mm cartridges, made more difficult because Chinese ammo had a tough lacquer seal where the bullet seated into the case. When the job was done, 11,565 AK rounds had been sabotaged, along with 556 rounds for the Communist Bloc's heavy 12.7 mm machine gun, a major anti-helicopter weapon.

Eldest Son cartridges originally were reloaded with a powder similar to PETN high explosive, but sufficiently shock-sensitive that an ordinary rifle primer would detonate it. This white powder, however, did not even faintly resemble gunpowder. SOG's technical wizard, Ben Baker - - our answer to James Bond's "Q" - - decided this powder might compromise the program if ever an enemy soldier pulled apart an Eldest Son round. He obtained a substitute explosive that so closely resembled gunpowder that it would pass inspection by anyone but an ordnance expert.

While the AKM and Type 56 AKs and the RPD light machine gun could accommodate a chamber pressure of 45,000 p.s.I., Baker's deadly powder generated a whopping 250,000 p.s.i.

Major John L. Plaster, USAR (Ret.). Wreaking Havoc One Round At A Time. American Rifleman <http://www.nrapublications.org/tar/index.asp> . May 2008.

diggsbakes 11-23-2010 04:16 AM

Well, that was interesting reading guys. I wasn't all that informed as to the details of that operation, but I was aware that it occurred.

However, just for another angle on this "kaboom" at hand:

I didn't notice exactly where that video was shot, but it was obvious that it was a Muslim country. Lets remember that the AK-47 is often assembled in these countries with poor/improper tools and equipment and little to no training in the art of gunsmithing. The loose tolerances of the AK-47 permitt them to be built this way and be quite effective, but if a misalignment or shotty parts installation did occur, these animals would never know until their rifle finally went KABOOM!!!

Some other factors could include poor ammo, resulting in excessive fouling, resulting in blockage, resulting in KABOOM!!!

Either way cool video! :)

Recon 173 11-24-2010 10:46 AM

The cartridge had the wrong or too much propellant in it. Probably a double charge or the wrong type of propellant. The AK first blew up in the area of the chamber which tells me that it had to be the cartridge more than anything. Some of these new propellants will create fantastic chamber pressures which, if put into a cartridge wrong, will make the gun go boom :eek: real fast. Sort of like what you saw with this AK.

PTsouthpaw 11-24-2010 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USNCDR (Post 389929)
To back up JonM here is par of a story from one of Major John Plastrer's books:

“Project Eldest Son” fascinating story from Vietnam War

During the Vietnam War, the Studies And Observations Group (SOG) created an ingenious top-secret program called Project Eldest Son to wreak general mayhem and cause the Viet Cong and NVA to doubt the safety of their guns and ammunition.

Amid a firefight near the Cambodian border on June 6, 1968, a North Vietnamese Army soldier spotted an American G.I. raising his rifle, and the NVA infantryman pulled his trigger, anticipating a muzzle blast.

United States 1st Infantry Division troops later found the enemy soldier, sprawled beside his Chinese Type 56 AK, quite dead - - but not from small-arms fire. Peculiarly, they could see, his rifle had exploded, its shattered receiver killing him instantly. It seemed a great mystery that his AK had blown up since nothing was blocking the bore. Bad metallurgy, the G.I.s concluded, or possibly defective ammo. It was neither.

In reality, this actual incident was the calculated handiwork of one the Vietnam War's most secret and least understood covert operations: Project Eldest Son. So secret was this sabotage effort that few G.I.s in Southeast Asia ever heard of it or the organization behind it, the innocuously named Studies and Observations Group. As the Vietnam War's top-secret special ops task force, SOG's operators - - Army Special Forces, Air Force Air Commandos and Navy SEALs - - worked directly for the Joint Chiefs, executing highly classified, deniable missions in the enemy's backyard of Laos, Cambodia and North Vietnam.

Though obscure, this trick was not new. In the 1930s, to combat rebellious tribesmen in northwest India's Waziristan - - the same lawless region where Taliban and al Qaeda terrorists hide today - - the British army planted sabotaged .303 rifle ammunition. Even before that, during the Second Metabele War (1896-97) in today's Zimbabwe, British scouts (led by the American adventurer Frederick Russell Burnham) had slipped explosive-packed rifle cartridges into hostile stockpiles, to deadly effect. SOG would do likewise, the Joint Chiefs decided on August 30, 1967, but first Col. Singlaub arranged for CIA ordnance experts to conduct a quick feasibility study.

After that success began a month of tedious bullet pulling to manually disassemble thousands of 7.62 mm cartridges, made more difficult because Chinese ammo had a tough lacquer seal where the bullet seated into the case. When the job was done, 11,565 AK rounds had been sabotaged, along with 556 rounds for the Communist Bloc's heavy 12.7 mm machine gun, a major anti-helicopter weapon.

Eldest Son cartridges originally were reloaded with a powder similar to PETN high explosive, but sufficiently shock-sensitive that an ordinary rifle primer would detonate it. This white powder, however, did not even faintly resemble gunpowder. SOG's technical wizard, Ben Baker - - our answer to James Bond's "Q" - - decided this powder might compromise the program if ever an enemy soldier pulled apart an Eldest Son round. He obtained a substitute explosive that so closely resembled gunpowder that it would pass inspection by anyone but an ordnance expert.

While the AKM and Type 56 AKs and the RPD light machine gun could accommodate a chamber pressure of 45,000 p.s.I., Baker's deadly powder generated a whopping 250,000 p.s.i.

Major John L. Plaster, USAR (Ret.). Wreaking Havoc One Round At A Time. American Rifleman <http://www.nrapublications.org/tar/index.asp> . May 2008.

I just learned a lot. Thank you.

Recon 173 11-27-2010 06:17 AM

Also in reference to Operation Eldest Son... Did you know that if dump the propellant out of a 7.62 X 39 cartridge and stuff (and cram) C-4 into the case and then re-seat the bullet you can also get some interesting results? And if you don't have C-4, if you use Ho Chi Minh Soap (explosive found in commie grenades) you can also get some interesting results too. For some reason, those re-seated bullets just can't get out of the way quick enough before the rifle bolt shatters and blows up in the face of the user...

And this works well with either an SKS or an AK-47...

TheProphet 11-30-2010 02:41 AM

Could have simply been an out of battery kaboom as well...:confused:

CornCod 12-20-2010 12:16 AM

From the very fact that the weapon in question had a very short barrel, one may infer that it was a Khyber Pass "Krink-style" rifle. Most of these are constructed of very inferior metals and materials. The combination of a short barrel and the fact that it has a standard AK-47/AKM folding stock is very telling. Folks in the Pakistan Tribal areas and Afghanistan love the Krinks, even the phony ones, but they have a bad record of self-destruction.

robocop10mm 12-21-2010 07:54 PM

A friend of a friend had several AR's stolen over a period of a year. Insurance paid to replace the missing rifle which only led to more theft. His answer was to load 20 rounds with a case full of Bullseye powder and keep those in the magazine in the rifle. He colored the bullets with a blue magic marker to make sure he did not accidentally touch one off.

Sure enough, the rifle was stolen again, but never again. Whoever shot that rifle was in for a shock and hopefully some disfuguring injury.

Of course, this is for educational purposes only. To actually do such a thing in this day and age would likely end up with you at the wrong end of a serious lawsuit.


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