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Old 10-12-2009, 08:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
2) The gas operated, short throw piston driven action. Most automatic everything is somehow fed off the gas expelled by the round going down the tube. The AR uses a similiar platform. The difference is that the AK bleeds that gas off, into a chamber that is brazed, or welded, onto the barrel. That gas pressure then drives a piston, which is another harmonic induced to the barrel, to cycle the action.
Are the harmonics of a single shot affected or is this only relevant when talking about repeat fire or rapid fire?
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:04 PM   #12
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One thing you can do with your AK that would help....replace the trigger.

Check out Red Star, for an adjustable AK trigger

Red Star Arms Inc.

A few years back, they did a test with a .223 VEPR K model, installed a Red Star trigger group. If I remember right, the base figures were that the gun averaged 2-2.5 moa on a rest @ 100yds, using Black Hills 69gr. Not too shabby for an AK system, but then again the VEPR's were put together a lot better than most.

After the trigger group install, they were able to achieve 1.75 moa, with a best of 1.3. I'm sure there are probably a few more mods you can do to yours to improve that. Also you might want to check out Mark Krebs

Welcome to Krebs Custom - Custom Parts - Kalashnikov Rifle Parts

He has done alot of research and work to customize AK's. He isn't cheap, but neither is his work.

Slo

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Old 10-12-2009, 11:08 PM   #13
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Are the harmonics of a single shot affected or is this only relevant when talking about repeat fire or rapid fire?
My belief, because the gas pressure behind the round is bled off and forces a stopped piston to lurch into motion before that round leaves that pencil thin barrel, which affects harmonics, is that YES.

It is affected on a single shot, but nowhere near as bad as it is under heavy sustained fire....

JD
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Old 10-16-2009, 01:15 AM   #14
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The AK system rifle performs exactly as it was designed to. Dont buy a AK variant if what you want is a tack driver. It was designed to be a combat accurate but reliable rifle for close-med range targets.

To fairly evaluate the rifle you must examine it within the scope of its design-intent.

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Old 10-19-2009, 03:02 AM   #15
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I saw this thread when searching for something else AK related and thought I would join the fun. Im new here but have around 6000 posts on the AK on other boards. Im not bragging just want to give a little back ground. after reading the above posts I felt compeled to comment

IMOO the AK 47 and variants are possably the most under esimated gun in regards to accuracy. Most of there bad PR is due to guys shooting ammo that is garbage when it comes to accuracy potential. that and the crap trigger and poor sights.

I have built some pretty accurate AKs, I have several stock barreld 7.62x39 builds including a 12.5" barrel pistol that will shoot under 1" at 100 yard 4 or 5 shot groups. I also have a a couple custom barreld 7.62x39,s that will do well under 1" groups. they have .308 bores and tight chambers but the actoins are pretty stock. all are scoped and have tuned triggers.

I have a heavily modifed AK in 223 that will shoot SUB 1/2" Groups consistantly. I have shot Praire dogs out to 700 yards with it. The gun runs a
26" heavy varmit barrel 1-9 twist that is floated and the rest of the gun is pretty modifed. how ever it still runs a pretty much stock bolt and carrier and and it is built on a bent tapco non fully temperd reciver. that is basicaly of stock design. The pont being is the action will shoot accuratly

IMOO all this bussiness of the pistion in the gas system causing inaacuracy and all the stuff about the loose fit of the carrier and bolt to the reciver is false. MY 223 build shot virtualy the same with no gas system installed as it did with all the gas block, gas tube, ect installed In fact the the best group to date was with the gas system installed. It has shot a .437" four shot group and 5 shot groups at just under .500"

To many guys just dissmiss the AK as inaccurate with out really trying to do any thing with it. I deer hunt with a scoped AK pistol in a local pistol/shotgun zone and I have taken deer out to 225 yards ( thats really pushing it BTW ). I varmit shoot almost exclusivly with my AK varmit build. Im working on a 260 remington version currently.

Good ammo is vital to shooting getting much out of them. hand loads and load development work are critical to getting much under 1" groups.
in 7.62x39 hand loads are almost mandatory. seating the bullet out as far as the mag will allow helps and if any brass can be found that has a thicker neck it would help some AK chambers have over .012" of neck clearance and a ton of free bore. I have a custom reamer that remidys on a custom barrel build. I have made better brass from 220 russian blown out to 7.62x39.
220 Russian is the parent round of the argueably most accurate round on the planet. the 6mm and 22 PPC. winchester brass will work pretty well for basic accuracy loads. bullet selection is not great but Graff & sons have apretty good selection. going to a 308 barrel solves the bullet problem.

Here is a link to a site that has more info about mine and otheraccuracy builds with lots of good info. (i hope its ok to post it here) I welcome any one to check it out

link>>>> ACCURIZING THE AK - Gunco.net

here is some pics of a few of my more accurate AKs. the orange target was 10 shots at 200 yards with my 223 varmit AK build while adjusting the scope during a sight in. the circle is around 5 shots with no scope adjust and the others were with a click or two to the left. had I Not been trying to get it zeroed it likley would have been a quarter sized 10 shoot 200 yard group. Many $1500 AR,s cant do this.

Most good barrel AKs with a trigger job, optics on a quality mount, and good ammo will shoot in the 1" -1 1/4" range. some will do better. MY AMD pistol amazes me from a bench. I recently out shot a guy at a range that laughed when I was getting ready to shoot at the 100 yard target. he quit lauging when I out shot his Rem 700 308 with factory ammo.

p1020588.jpg   p1020659.jpg   p1020658.jpg   p1020929.jpg  
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Old 10-19-2009, 07:43 PM   #16
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Very good info. biggun. But I do have one question. How much does something like that cost? One of the biggest appeals of the AK 47 is its affordability.

It seems like you know your AKs, so can you tell us some basic adjustments that can be made, short of re-barreling the gun. (which probably costs about as much as an entire rifle) I love AKs for many reasons, one of which is the amount of gun you get for your money.

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Old 10-19-2009, 07:57 PM   #17
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Nice writeup, but those two ground hogs don't seem impressed.

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Old 10-19-2009, 08:39 PM   #18
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Hell of a post 1BIGGUN, great information and personal experience. I have always liked the AKs and AK variants from personal use experiences. The ammunition explanation information was right on, IMO.

Nice looking AK .223 build.

Jack

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Old 10-19-2009, 10:00 PM   #19
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Very good info. biggun. But I do have one question. How much does something like that cost? One of the biggest appeals of the AK 47 is its affordability.

It seems like you know your AKs, so can you tell us some basic adjustments that can be made, short of re-barreling the gun. (which probably costs about as much as an entire rifle) I love AKs for many reasons, one of which is the amount of gun you get for your money.
I built that perticular gun almost 5 years ago. when kits were $50 I had $110 into the barrel that was of a new savage varmit rifle. I turned to to fit the AK trunion. and then built the gas block from scratch its a tight tollerance long bore deign to reduce gas port Dia. and took a GB and milled off the top and bottom welded the bottom to a square barrel sleave that fit the almost 1" OD barrel and then welded in a plate to the top to allow me to bolt on a weaver type rail that I milled from solid steel. the materials for all that was around $30. the Flat was $9 the trigger is a very modifed tapco with adjustment screws added it breaks at about 2 LBS and is very touchy. this is not a gun you pack loaded ever!. I have about $25 in the trigger. the bolt is from a bulgarian 223 as is the bullet guide ithat ran about $80 the fore grip is a Sagia take off that is gutted out and has the rear cut of and floated with a milled plate ran along the bottom bridgeing from reciver to the fore grip. the fore grip was $10. the stock is a much modifed ATI part with a crude cheek rest it was $55. the scope in the picture is a BSA 6.5x24 that ran around $75 I need a better scope but it does work and hold zero but I dont touch the knobs for any thing once sighted in. add another 50 for incidentals and finish and it comes out at just under $500 with optics, the bipod shares duty with a few differant guns its a Versi a Pod. about $65 .

with a factory stock and no optics and it would have been under $400. there is 4 years of development into it I shot it a year with no gas system loading it by hand. it has about 3500 rouns through it and its starting to loose a little bit of accuracy but will still do around 1/2 inch. today the same thing can be done on a barreless kit for about $150 more. it should also be pointed out that I recently sold the un used , bolt, stock set, barrel, for more than I paid for the kit initaly so in reality you can subtract the $100 I sold the extra parts for so in reality I have about $300 in it with out optics but a ton of work. that gun was built in a non stop two week marathon build and the paint was wet when I but it in the RV for the first praire dog hunt. I built it on a dare. my buddy has a nice rock river AR varmit build and saw my hunting pistol and said there was no way I could make a ak come close to his AR. I have out shot him the last three times at the range. he likley needs better ammo. His rock river is a nice gun not sure its worth $1500


Quote:
Nice writeup, but those two ground hogs don't seem impressed.
LOL ya those dam babby prairie dogs sat under that barrel going off all damm day and never flinched. I was throwing 22lr cases at them they were about 3 " away. the top of that hill was 700 yards the ones part way down werent impressed either there dead. that gun is really good to 400 yards and then the 223 starts to loose its effectiveness. IM working on a 22-250 version and a 260 remington and also a 17-223 . 1000 Yards is my goal its reall hard at those ranges with out range finders that will work and scopes that you can crank the adjustment around and then back and go back to were you start. I had a unconfirmed hit at 800+ yrds with it but wasent able to find a body a half a mile away. I have some better pics and info on the build Ill post in a bit
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Old 10-20-2009, 04:50 AM   #20
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Well I'm most definitely impressed by your devotion and expertise in regards to the AK 47. I have to admit it is my favorite rifle. Too be quite honest that's because I understand its mechanics better than any other self loader.

That being said... there is no way at this point in my amateur gunsmithing ventures, that I would be able (or have the time or equipment) to complete such an in depth, complicated, custom build.

Your guns are very impressive, but are beyond the realm of the "Standard AK rifle". I think whoever started this thread was interested in certain tweaks, mods, replacement parts, etc. that could be accomplished by more typical, "standard" AK owners.

I'd love to hear something on that level.


D

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