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CaseyChadwell 11-18-2013 12:44 PM

This is news to me, but apparently not the rest of the world. The Chinese are using a 5.8x42mm cartridge. Has anyone ever shot one? Wikipedia says the Chinese claim better ballistics than both the 556 and the 762x39. Seems like it would be a neat cartridge if that were true.

mountainman13 11-18-2013 12:55 PM

Never heard of it

CaseyChadwell 11-18-2013 01:08 PM

My above post said better ballistics than the 556 and the 762x39. I was wrong. The Chinese are claiming better ballistics and barrier penetration than the 556 and the 545x39. The cartridge doesn't look like it is anything to really sneeze at at all. Seems well thought out and well made, with the exception of the metal cases...but all in all, seems solid. I'd be interested in someone who has shot one of these at distance. The Chinese claim flatter trajectory than a 556 out to longer ranges using 64 grain steel core rounds.

kbd512 11-21-2013 03:26 AM

The Chinese claim a lot of things…

Unless they specified the specific 5.56MM cartridge that it was supposedly better than, it's kinda hard to answer that question. With 5.56MM, you have options.

Up-close and personal anti-personnel round that doesn't over-penetrate: M193
GP penetrator with better medium range ballistics: M855
Better barrier penetrator with better accuracy: M855A1
Better barrier penetrator: MK318 MOD 0
Better fragmentation envelope and distance and accuracy at distance: MK262

There are other rounds in inventory, like AP (uncommon), but you get the idea.

If you look at the barrel length that M855 is fired from, it becomes apparent why DBP87/95 or later variants thereof are superior to M855. The test barrel length for US cartridges is 20". The test barrel length for their DBP87 cartridges is 557MM or about 21.9". The cartridge is the just about the same in overall length as US M855, the bullet is only 2 grains heavier, and less than half a millimeter wider. How superior do you think that ammo could really be to 5.56MM? Chop that extra two inches off the Chinese barrel and see which cartridge performs better. MK318 already does 2900FPS from a 14" barrel and about 3100FPS from a 20" barrel. If DBP87/95 does 3100 FPS from a 21.9" barrel and DBP10 does 2900FPS from a 21.9" barrel, which rounds are they superior to? Can you chop 3.9" of barrel off of their guns and get the same velocity we're getting from MK262 MOD 1?

I'm a little skeptical of Chinese claims of producing superior ammunition or weapons.

kbd512 11-21-2013 03:37 AM

On that note, 7.62x40MM Wilson Tactical cartridges basically make the AR equivalent to an 7.62x39MM M43/M67 cartridge in terms of exterior ballistics while permitting the use of most of the major basic AR components (magazine, bolt, bolt carrier, receiver). Obviously the barrel and gas port diameter on the barrel would vary.

If you want to do something with an AR pattern rifle or carbine that's actually possible, someone probably already thought about it and did it.

kbd512 11-21-2013 04:30 AM

After LSAT is deployed, it really won't matter if DBP10 is slightly better than M855.

A Chinese QJY-88 weighs about the same as the SAW. A LSAT machine gun would weigh the same with 250 rounds of ammunition. With further refinement it'll probably be possible to produce an 8 pound belt fed machine gun.

It won't take any genius in mathematics at their military sciences committee to realize that if we can field guns that weigh 50% less than theirs with ammunition that weigh more than 50% less than theirs and comparable ballistics that their soldiers are going to have to get a lot stronger or they're going to run out of ammunition long before our soldiers run out.

I assume they are working on stealing that technology because they are not able to produce it themselves or they already would have, as the caseless ammunition technology suitable for military weapons is now several decades old.

Gizord1 11-21-2013 05:34 AM

The new Chinese cartridges made for their new guns are pretty guarded. There is less than a dozen worldwide as far as collecting.

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