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Old 06-01-2010, 01:40 AM   #31
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I don't have to worry about range restrictions around here. We just go out to the strip pits and shoot. There are large dirt embankments that we can shoot into and will handle pretty much anything. So it pretty much just comes down to price. Right now I'm leaning towards a .223 caliber.
Nice, the .223 is extremly versitile and relatively inexpensive to shoot. Plus, you can shoot all day without getting sore or brusied. I apologize if I came of as aloof or overly sarcasitic as well. I'm glad you decided to accept this forum as a source of invaluable info you get for free. Keep in mind that many gun mags rarely have a bad thing to say about any caliber or manufacturer as they rely on advertisement dollars. It is not the case here. You will get honest answers and advice here. All you have to do is ask.

Stick around, Big. Members are always welcome when they accept this forum for what it is, and that is a community of shooters who feel very strong about freedom and the right to bear arms. I think you will fit in nicely.

Peace, brother.

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Old 06-01-2010, 02:01 AM   #32
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How can a longer twist be better for any type of bullet? Wouldn't a faster rate of spin always be better?
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:24 AM   #33
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How can a longer twist be better for any type of bullet? Wouldn't a faster rate of spin always be better?
Most excellent question.

Bullets are like a fooball. There is a point where it can be over or under spun based on weight, mass, center of gravity, drag and a ton of other physical factors where the football will wobble. For instance, John Elway had one of the strongest arms in modern times, but very few of his hardest thrown passes did not wobble a bit. Just like a football, bullets can wobble if over or under spun. The science of spinning a bullet is based on physics and physics alone. Gun designers and manufactures are always testing the science and optimizing the twist for certain grains (weight) of bullets in their respective calibers.

There are many ways of explaining the physics of projectiles, and I know for a fact that there are many members here who can quote you the twist of any certain firearm and the best bullet for that platform. I cannot, but I hope I got the basics right or I will hear it from them with no mercy.

I hope that helps a bit. I'm sure those with the exact numbers will be along soon.
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:39 AM   #34
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How can a longer twist be better for any type of bullet? Wouldn't a faster rate of spin always be better?
Not always. A lighter bullet, lets say a 55gr .223, will exit a fast twist barrel with so much spin that the bullet will actually destabilize and possibly tear itself apart since there is not enough mass to overcome the destructive centrifugal force. There is an optimum spin and barrel length for every type and weight of round, most commercially available guns are a compromise. Competitive shooters will have custom made barrels set up to exactly match their custom loads. Of course most weekend warriors don't sink $10,000 or more into a plinker.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:27 AM   #35
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Most excellent question.

Bullets are like a fooball. There is a point where it can be over or under spun based on weight, mass, center of gravity, drag and a ton of other physical factors where the football will wobble. For instance, John Elway had one of the strongest arms in modern times, but very few of his hardest thrown passes did not wobble a bit. Just like a football, bullets can wobble if over or under spun. The science of spinning a bullet is based on physics and physics alone. Gun designers and manufactures are always testing the science and optimizing the twist for certain grains (weight) of bullets in their respective calibers.

There are many ways of explaining the physics of projectiles, and I know for a fact that there are many members here who can quote you the twist of any certain firearm and the best bullet for that platform. I cannot, but I hope I got the basics right or I will hear it from them with no mercy.

I hope that helps a bit. I'm sure those with the exact numbers will be along soon.
Ahh that's great. I understand colpletely now. Also, since you mentioned football, I read somewhere that due to the spin of a football, a pass tends to drift to the right when thrown by a right handed QB. Is the same true of a bullet?
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:33 AM   #36
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Oh one more thing. Which is better for what Im wanting to do, a heavier or lighter bullet? A heavier bullet would penetrate deeper but I don't really care about that. And a heavier bullet would be more accurate because it could cut through the air better and would be less affected by the wind. Am I right in saying that?
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:53 AM   #37
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Ahh that's great. I understand colpletely now. Also, since you mentioned football, I read somewhere that due to the spin of a football, a pass tends to drift to the right when thrown by a right handed QB. Is the same true of a bullet?
Bullets don't tend to drift based on spin mostly because the back end of a bullet is not conical like a football. They are squared off and flat so there is no drag on the hind end like a football. I was going for the easy analogy, not the pure scientific reality.

Bullets are affected by wind, temperature, elevation, humidity...and a mess of other stuff that is not normally relevant to plinking or paper shooting. I like to leave that up to the pros. That is why military snipers have spotters that use a mass of computations to get the ballistics correct. For most of us, that stuff does not matter, as we just want to put bullets down range into cans or paper for fun.

The lighter the bullet, the more the wind affects the point of impact. The heavier the bullet, the more gravity effect. Keep in mind that when a bullet leaves a barrel, it rises and then drops. The longer the distance, the greater the drop. For instance, a slug form a shotgun might hit dead center at 50 yards, but when shooting at 100 yards, the shooter may have to compensate several inches in height when aiming to hit the target center.
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:11 AM   #38
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Which would affect the bullet more wind or gravity. I think it would be easier to ajust for gravity more than wind because gravity is a constant. So a heavier bullet would be better for me.

Why does a bullet rise when it leaves the barrel?
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:30 AM   #39
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Which would affect the bullet more wind or gravity. I think it would be easier to ajust for gravity more than wind because gravity is a constant. So a heavier bullet would be better for me.

Why does a bullet rise when it leaves the barrel?
When it comes to the question of "bullet rise" heres a fairly good explaination of what is really happening. Bullet Trajectory
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Old 06-01-2010, 12:52 PM   #40
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To say the fast twist barrels (1/7 - 1/9) do not shoot the light weight bullets well is, IMHO, an over generalization. Perhaps the definition of light weight and heavy weight needs to be clarified. I consider any bullet UNDER 55 grains to be a light weight. Any bullet OVER 61 grains to be a heavy weight. 55-61 being mid-weight. My 1/7 and 1/9 barrels shoot 55's and 64's fine. I don't see much of a need (for my purposes) for anything outside that range.

The big problem with the "light weight" bullets is they tend to have thin jackets (designed for thinskinned varmints). These bullets are designed to be shot through slow twist barrels (1/12) and then be explosive on impact. The fast twist barrels spin the bullets so fast the thin jackets can become damaged causing erratic accuracy and even in flight fragmentation. I have seen the tell tale gray "Puff" about 10-15 feet from the muzzle indicating the bullet disintigrated in flight.

For general plinking with 55gr FMJBT (M-193) ammo in a fast twist barrel you will generally not see any problems because the jacket is relatively thick and holds up well to the torsional forces.
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