When does a rifle become obsolete??? - Page 8
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Old 02-09-2014, 07:51 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by armsmaster270 View Post
When you can't get ammo for it or shoot it, or use it as a club its obsolete.
My understanding, that would include most guns in the states right now.
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:17 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Mark_Van_Goth View Post
The most interesting aswers to my initial question was "It all depends on how you're going to use it" and "It may be obsolete, but it doesn't mean that you can't get some combat power from it".

As I wrote in previous posts...there are several rifles that in good hands can make a substantial difference.Let's take in consideration the G3, M14 and the FAL.Both are condired to be bulky, heavy and with a relatively strong perceived recoil(not recommended for full auto).They would rather not be used by any user who was trained to use something lighter and more controlallable as the M16 or the M4.They would not be accepted, at least not as "standard service weapons" by the majority of them.
Let's be honest:These rifle are still great and effective marksman rifles.And all of them can be heavily updated and reconfigured to adapt them to a particular task.Whoever has used them in combat of have just practiced accurate shooting(800m/880 yds +) knows what I'm talking about.

The same theory might be applied to the whole AK platform.They say it is obsolete.Let's think about it.
Is its production cost effective?Yes it is.The average cost per unit ranges from 50-75$ per unit.
Is it effective on the field?The accuracy is acceptable, the rifle is reliable, the stopping, penetration, killing/wounding power is more that acceptable-it is still pretty effective if compared to more modern weapons
Can it accept upgrades and accessories?Hell yeah!There are several options that can be applied even to the oldest AKs(like a 1959 AKM).You can mount almost everything on it).in some cases, they modern AK rifles has even integrated rail system and more comfortable(user-friendly) fire-selectors(thumb-activated).

So how can you define as obsolete/obsolescent a rifle that is still extremely effective on the field and can compete under many aspects with more modern firearms?
Another comparison that can be made is the MP5 vs. UMP.The UMP is considered to be the successor of the MP5, especially in terms of production costs(An average MP5 costs 900$!!!) and the materials used.But what about the quality and the performance?The MP5 is still superior to it...even if it is "turning" 50.Anyone who shot both weapons(especially on the field) will agree with this.The main advantages of the UMP over the MP5 are the materials used, the integrated picatinny rails and the multicaliber availability.
But...Guess what?You can modify an MP5 to achieve a similar result(e.g. I've seen MP5 with integrated railsystem(welded on the receiver...a piece of cake, very well made).

So again...why don't you simply upgrade an "already-winning-horse" instead of trying to "reinvent the whole thing"?In my personal opinion, all the mentioned platforms still haven't reached their full potential...
In short.

The battle rifles you list in the 1st paragraph are all obsolescent but not obsolete.
And thats fine.

Not everyone who wants a new a new 7.62x51mm battle rifle can afford say a SIG 716.

And thats ok.
Another way to put it if we wish t split hairs.. a FN FAL/G# etc maybe be old-fashioned (obsolescent) but not outmoded (obsolete).

Same applies for the AK series.
it is not obsolete (outmoded) in any way sinc eit is still useful and gives significant combat power, but it is obsolescent since the makers who use dot make it now produce the 5.45mm versions ( I know there are exceptions for the interest in the civ market etc etc)
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Last edited by bluez; 02-09-2014 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:44 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by bluez View Post
In short.

The battle rifles you list in the 1st paragraph are all obsolescent but not obsolete.
And thats fine.

Not everyone who wants a new a new 7.62x51mm battle rifle can afford say a SIG 716.

And thats ok.
Another way to put it if we wish t split hairs.. a FN FAL/G# etc maybe be old-fashioned (obsolescent) but not outmoded (obsolete).

Same applies for the AK series.
it is not obsolete (outmoded) in any way sinc eit is still useful and gives significant combat power, but it is obsolescent since the makers who use dot make it now produce the 5.45mm versions ( I know there are exceptions for the interest in the civ market etc etc)
Well...nowdays the AK platform is available in several calibers(5,56x45;7,62x39;5,45x36;7,62x51; etc)but this is not the best improvement.Let's take in consideration the Galil ACE and the AK12.These two rifles are part the "natural evolution" of the AK platform.None of them can be considered obsolete or obsolescent.I would like to see Kalashnikov concern(former Izhmash) collaborating with israeli IWI:Can you imagine what kind of AK rifle would they design?

A rifle that:
-Can be disassembled like a Galil(The best option)
-Has the foldable both-sides loading handle(AK 12)
-Has an integrated uninterrupted picatinny railsystem that starts on the receiver cover and covers the whole gastube + a tri-rail system on the lower handguard(Galil ACE)
-Has the thumb activated fire-selector of a the AK 12
-Has the stamped receiver (AK 12)-to reduce production costs and weight
-Has quick-mag-release of the Galil ACE
-Has the iron sights of the Galil(well known to be very good sights)

Obviously you can't have it all....but I'm pretty sure that a REALLY good compromise can be reached.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:21 PM   #74
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when it looks like this.................
boomerang_barrel.jpg  
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:41 PM   #75
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I'd still shoot it just be very careful


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