Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion > When does a rifle become obsolete???

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Old 02-07-2014, 01:52 AM   #21
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It is obsolete when it is no longer produced. And the price is now 10 times what it was when you were a kid.

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Old 02-07-2014, 02:24 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jagermeister View Post
The best machine in the World...MG42.....has been in military service for over 70 years in the Bundeswehr. Not a rifle, but it helps to prove a point.

Some German troops prefer the G3 over the G36.

The AK12 still only fires 600 rounds a minute and is not being adopted by the Russian military. Milled receiver AKs have better reliability and longevity then the stamped receivers. Lighter is not always better.
Some German troops have either not shot the G3's that they prefer or have nothing else to compare them to. Have them shoot some Mk 17's and then get back to us on what they prefer.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:30 AM   #23
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I have heard several time that a rifle is "obsolete".But in what occation it is really "too obsolete" to be used effectively on the field?

I have heard it about the AK, the M14, the Fal, the G3 and even about the AR platform.I have never really understand it.The AK and AR platforms can be upgraded to such levels and performace that you cannot call them "Obsolete", since they both prooved to be extremely effective and reliable on the field.You cannot call the M14/FAL/G3 platform "obsolete", since they are (at least) still great marksman rifles and still they let you get the "job done" with success(If we don't take take in consideration they derivarives...like the M1A, the DSA FAL, the MP5, PSG1, etc.

Is it only a matter of production costs, platform impossibility to be upgraded more than it has been upgraded till now or...something else?
IMO, the term "Obsolete" is an arbitrary standard, set by the user.

Numerous insurgencies and guerilla warfare situations of the last

century have taught us not to underestimate "obsolete" weapons.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:47 AM   #24
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Well, let's put it this way.

Shoot a Mosin-Nagant and then shoot a run-of-the-mill Remington 700 and then tell us which you prefer and why.

Shoot a FAL, G3, or M-14 and then shoot a SCAR-17 and then tell us which you prefer and why.

All of the aforementioned weapons are functional and share some design concepts, but it's pretty obvious to even an amateur that a Remington 700 is a better bolt action than a Mosin-Nagant and a SCAR-17 is a better semi-auto than a G3.

It's not that the older designs aren't functional, because they are, but the newer designs are obviously more ergonomic, lighter, and have more user-friendly design features. Many of the original designs were modified to provide more features, which is great if cost is the same or less than a newer design. That still doesn't make them equivalent to newer designs in terms of what you get from the box.

The FAL, G3, and M-14 are all solid designs, but they weren't designed to mount the optics and accessories that the SCAR-17 was. I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of the rest of them, but if I had a rack with all four and was told to pick one, I'd take the one that had the least amount of weight, the best ergonomics, and the most features, all other things being equal. Cost is an issue for militaries, but I want the best lead chucker I can get so long as it's reasonably affordable, durable, and reliable.

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Old 02-07-2014, 03:34 AM   #25
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OK, let me make it simple for you. The M91 is a strait stack loaded from above. You can not have lips on the mag well as you would not be able to load it. So what makes you an expert on any pre 1900 firearm? The case of a 7.62x54r was brass, tappered. No issue with extraction. I own both M93, M94, M95, M96, and M98 Mausers, but also own quite a few Mosin Nagants. I can't see how any Russian agency found Remington at fault since the design was not developed by them. I'm not well read, I own and shoot them. I realize your years maybe excede my limited 30 years with these firearms, but I'll still cal BS when I see it on the web. Here are a few, not all, but a few. All but two are either Mauser or Mosin Nagant.
I am not sure now you understand what the interrupter is for. It is to prevent double feeding. It has little to do with extraction.

Save for the small inaccuracy about the early Mauser bolt handle, everything I wrote about the Mosin is true and verifiable. Regarding the 1916 Russian inspection report on Remington and Westinghouse, I have read the excerpts. I don't know if the allegations were true. The revolution buried the whole affair deep under.

I can't understand the rest of your rant, my 30 years or whatever that means. Too bad.
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Old 02-07-2014, 03:42 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by kbd512 View Post
Well, let's put it this way.

Shoot a Mosin-Nagant and then shoot a run-of-the-mill Remington 700 and then tell us which you prefer and why.

Shoot a FAL, G3, or M-14 and then shoot a SCAR-17 and then tell us which you prefer and why.

All of the aforementioned weapons are functional and share some design concepts, but it's pretty obvious to even an amateur that a Remington 700 is a better bolt action than a Mosin-Nagant and a SCAR-17 is a better semi-auto than a G3.

It's not that the older designs aren't functional, because they are, but the newer designs are obviously more ergonomic, lighter, and have more user-friendly design features. Many of the original designs were modified to provide more features, which is great if cost is the same or less than a newer design. That still doesn't make them equivalent to newer designs in terms of what you get from the box.

The FAL, G3, and M-14 are all solid designs, but they weren't designed to mount the optics and accessories that the SCAR-17 was. I wouldn't turn my nose up at any of the rest of them, but if I had a rack with all four and was told to pick one, I'd take the one that had the least amount of weight, the best ergonomics, and the most features, all other things being equal. Cost is an issue for militaries, but I want the best lead chucker I can get so long as it's reasonably affordable, durable, and reliable.
I agree with you on several points but....as you know, nowadays you can mount almost everything even on "classic designs" as the M14/G3/M14/M16/AK.Several options of rail systems and accessories are available out there, so you can bring an "old rifle" to modern standards with a small investment in terms of money and time.
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:04 AM   #27
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The BATFE says guns made before 1899 for which the ammunition is not generally available is an antique. With a complete book of exceptions.

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Old 02-07-2014, 10:07 AM   #28
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The BATFE says guns made before 1899 for which the ammunition is not generally available is an antique. With a complete book of exceptions.
In the next breath the BATFE says any gun over 50 years old is a Curio or a Relic. The average paper pushing BATFE agent can't find his ass with both hands.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:49 AM   #29
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A rifle is obsolete only when it can longer been fired, either because ammunition or repair are unobtainable.

Then it is a decoration or a club.

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Old 02-07-2014, 11:38 AM   #30
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Obsolete is in the eye of the beholder,,, I've read many articles about those who measure the dimensions of old rifles and their ammunition specs, and try to recreate by altering other cases etc. A labor of love for the most part but many times they are successful, reviving the piece. Not very practical for the average guy, but if you have the equipment and know how, it could definitely be interesting.

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