Wasn't allowed to shoot 762x54r
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Old 10-24-2010, 06:26 AM   #1
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Default Wasn't allowed to shoot 762x54r

Today My wife and I went to our regular shooting range to spend a few bullets away, and we were told that 7.62x54r wasn't allowed ammo anymore and they showed me the Winchester, USA made caliber had a steel core, I was upset of course, what fun can I have a the range If I can't use a .308 or 7.62x54,( 5.56x54 is just not the same, it doesn't have the same boom!)

To make things worse, I have a couple of boxes they sold me, sometime before, with the pretext that Winchester was the only brand allowed. Needles to say, I want my money back.

A question is : Why would Winchester manufacture that specific caliber with a steel core, for local consumption, that is beyond my understanding, since that is not a current military specs needed ammunition.( I can understand soviet era surplus ammo, for obvious reasons). I any case , if I 'd like to fold down a deer, I would use a soft nosed round.

I was told however, there was a store where I "could purchase a lead core round for use in their range", i think the whole affair was BS, because if they know about that specific round why wouldn't they make it available to their customers, one doesn't need 2 inches of forehead to understand that.

Has anyone experienced something similar? What are your thoughts?

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Old 10-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #2
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The Win white box sometimes has a steel jacket in .308. Maybe it is the same for the 7.62x54?

Here in Cali we can't shoot ammo that will stick to a magnet at the outdoor ranges. Only out in the boonies (as allowed by the PoPo).

Fear of sparks causing a fire.

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Old 10-24-2010, 10:05 AM   #3
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Default 7.62x54r ammo is hard to find...

In a non corrosive form in brass cased ammo, but not impossible! (If I had
purchased a deer tag) And been carrying my Mosin/Nagant this past hunting
season I would have tagged a very nice whitetailed buck...but, my freezer
is still loaded with deer meat to the point that we are feeding most of it to
our beagles!

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Old 10-24-2010, 12:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by M14sRock View Post
Here in Cali we can't shoot ammo that will stick to a magnet at the outdoor ranges.
Same here at the local ranges. They say the steel core / jacket tears up the backstops, ricochets and starts fires. It's their range - their rules. What can you do?

But if a magnet doesn't stick to the bullet, you are ok to shoot it no matter what kind of case it is. Just one more good reason for folks to load their own ammo.
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Old 10-24-2010, 02:08 PM   #5
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There is a common misconception that a megnet will stick to it, it is steel cored or jacketed. Winchester does not make any steel core or jacketed rifle ammo. In many rifle calibers they use a "Bi-mretal" jacket that is Cupro Nickle. A magnet will attract slightly to the nickle. The range operators are ill-informed. I doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.

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Old 10-24-2010, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
There is a common misconception that a megnet will stick to it, it is steel cored or jacketed. Winchester does not make any steel core or jacketed rifle ammo. In many rifle calibers they use a "Bi-mretal" jacket that is Cupro Nickle. A magnet will attract slightly to the nickle. The range operators are ill-informed. I doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.
100% correct on the Cupro nickel. It is often a mix of nickel or copper and iron.
Most 7.62x54r is a lead core, there is very little w/ steel.

OP, simply cut the top of a bullet off w/ a hacksaw and show them the err of their ways. Notice the discription of this ammo.
Polish 7.62x54R 300rds on Chargers 1950s Light Ball
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:12 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
There is a common misconception that a magnet will stick to it, it is steel cored or [steel] jacketed. Winchester does not make any steel core or [steel] jacketed rifle ammo. In many rifle calibers they use a "Bi-metal" jacket that is Cupro Nickel. A magnet will attract slightly to the nickel.
Correct, the wives tales abound about ammo, but just in the last year or so
this one has been gaining way to much strength. Fortunately at my range
they are smarter than the rumors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robocop10mm View Post
I doubt you will be able to convince them otherwise.
You are likely right, and that is sad for them.

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Originally Posted by jpattersonnh View Post
100% correct on the Cupro nickel. It is often a mix of nickel or copper and iron. Most 7.62x54r is a lead core, there is very little w/ steel.
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

Copper Nickel alloys are alloy of those two metals at varying percentages,
iron is insoluble in this alloy system. When the percentage of Nickel exceeds
50% by mass the alloy is commonly referred to as its commercial name Monel.

I am very familiar with these alloys as I have welded and brazed them many
times.

Nickel is very expensive.
Stocks and Metals Charts

Copper is relatively cheaper.
Kitco - Spot Copper Historical Charts and Graphs - Copper charts - Industrial metals

Keep in mind the pricing above is what the primary mills pay for incoming
copper and nickel, processed sheet, wire etc. is higher. Ammo mfr. are
purchasing at a higher cost.

If Winchester is using a copper nickel alloy, which I have my doubts but
cannot find any reference to refute one way or the other, it would be a very
low percentage of nickel.

Adding nickel to the jacketing material will:
- increase cost, something ammo manufactures will not willingly do
- increase the hardness of the jacket, again a bad thing for guns
- increase the corrosion resisitance of the alloy

Monel is not even magnetic something to due with the alloying of copper.

Pure nickel is magnetic (proper term is ferro-magnetic) as is pure cobalt
both lesser so than pure iron. Alloys of cobalt nickel and iron remain
magnetic. However, other alloying elements such as chromium will eliminate
the magnetic properties, think stainless steels, although low alloy stainlesses
such as 303 and 304 are slightly magnetic, but I call 303 and 304 almost
stainless as they will rust.
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Old 10-24-2010, 05:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade View Post
Correct, the wives tales abound about ammo, but just in the last year or so
this one has been gaining way to much strength. Fortunately at my range
they are smarter than the rumors.


You are likely right, and that is sad for them.


Actually you are somewhat wrong.

Copper Nickel alloys are alloy of those two metals at varying percentages,
iron is insoluble in this alloy system. When the percentage of Nickel exceeds
50% by mass the alloy is commonly referred to as its commercial name Monel.
Not sure where your info comes from.
Mu-metal is a nickel-iron alloy (approximately 75% nickel, 15% iron, plus copper and molybdenum)
Depending on the "mix" it is common in bullet jackets. W/ a higher Nickel/ copper value it is a cupro nickel alloy.
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Old 10-24-2010, 10:39 PM   #9
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Now wait a minute, I'm confused are you all trying to say that steel core ammunition will not stick to a magnet? Because i just tested it to make sure and my 7.62x54r (7n14 Steel core armor piercing) sticks to a magnet like a mofo.

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Old 10-24-2010, 10:57 PM   #10
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Now wait a minute, I'm confused are you all trying to say that steel core ammunition will not stick to a magnet? Because i just tested it to make sure and my 7.62x54r (7n14 Steel core armor piercing) sticks to a magnet like a mofo.
Steel core is most certainly attracted to a magnet, but not all ammo that is attracted to a magnet is steel cored. Sometimes the bullet has been steel washed, cupro nickel plated, mild steel jacketed, etc.
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