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Old 09-27-2011, 04:15 PM   #1
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Default Sub-gun usefulness?

I recently was having a discussion with a friend about the usefulness of a sub-gun system. I argued that the lighter weight and the milder recoil in general compared to a carbine in 16" in .223 would be superior. He argued in this day and age that a sub-gun was a dead system, and that a carbine in any rifle caliber would far outline the benefits of lighter weight and recoil. What do you guys think? Is the sub-gun a dead system or is there life for it still in different roles?

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Old 09-27-2011, 04:56 PM   #2
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short barreled rifles have enormous issues with muzzle flash from the unburnt powder. they also lose a very large amount of energy from the extremely short barrels. so you end up with a bullet that generally is lacking energy huge flash issues.

pistol caliber subguns dont have those issues and usually work better due to the longer barrels than the pistols they were designed for. flash suppression is very very good

so in a situation like urban combat or police clearing houses or arresting violent felons a subgun does extremely well.

neither type does it all. they both have a definate use and role.

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Old 09-27-2011, 05:07 PM   #3
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Oh, Geez....I guess that MP5 just didn't cut it as an offensive weapons system. And let's throw in the Thompson Sub in .45APC as well....just not effective for close quarters combat...because that is what they were designed for!

A mid range machinegun (full auto or select fire) like the M16 was built to fulfill both needs and thus limit the amount of different ammunition and weapons systems on the battlefield. Times change, but the effectiveness of the sub weapons systems cannot be denied.

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Old 09-27-2011, 06:49 PM   #4
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My experience with subguns is limited to an ancient M3 45 blowback greasegun I lugged around for a week as a kind of back-up/novelty. If you fire it at kevlar the rounds bounce off. BITD, however, when the only body armor was a shirt, it would have done the job.

An x2 re the MP5 etc. Some very good short shooters have been around in recent times. They have their place.

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Old 09-27-2011, 08:32 PM   #5
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I see. Now the question is in semi auto only do these guns fulfill those roles? Cause as a civilian most of us would have semi-auto only rifles and guns. So what role can a civilian use these guns for? Besides the cool factor

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Old 09-27-2011, 08:35 PM   #6
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even though they are extremely pricey HK has the best sub guns on the market. MP5, MP5sd, and the UMP45 are a few of the popular ones IMO

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Old 09-27-2011, 09:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eon047 View Post
I see. Now the question is in semi auto only do these guns fulfill those roles? Cause as a civilian most of us would have semi-auto only rifles and guns. So what role can a civilian use these guns for? Besides the cool factor
because they are fun.

they make great guns for behind the seat or in the trunk defensive weapons

they make superb home defense weapons where the concussive blast from shotguns may be really problematic. try firing a shotgun or handgun inside a building. a pistol caliber rifle is not very abusive concussion wise. if you got an indoor range you frequent take the hearing protection off for one shot. that experience is very unique. a pistol caliber greatly reduces that abuse. it makes follow up shots much easier.

in border states they make outstanding defensive weapons in urban areas that have become extremely violent due to the lack of border security by george bush and barrack obama. not to mention eric holder and obama selling massive amounts of firearms to the drug lords on purpose.

civilians have far more right to be armed with military style firearms than police departments and the actual military does. the governments ability to have weapons comes from the civilians not the other way round and that is whats been long forgotten

a better question is what right does the police and military have for access to such weapons while denying them to the civilian population...
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:14 PM   #8
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i really wish i had the cash to drop on a mp5. ive always love that setup. anyway. yes, sub guns or pistol caliber carbines are great for CQB. they give you ample stopping power, higher magazine capacity, and better accuracy then pistols themselves. and lighter, less recoil then shotguns. not intended for longer ranges. and ive never been in a house(very vew other buildings) that would need or even offer longer shots...

just the other day i saw a 9mm carbine getting fired. it painted a nice little pattern all over a 8'' bullseye at 100yds. and im sure that there are no bad guys that have a chest smaller than 8''

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Old 09-27-2011, 09:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonM View Post
because they are fun.

they make great guns for behind the seat or in the trunk defensive weapons

they make superb home defense weapons where the concussive blast from shotguns may be really problematic. try firing a shotgun or handgun inside a building. a pistol caliber rifle is not very abusive concussion wise. if you got an indoor range you frequent take the hearing protection off for one shot. that experience is very unique. a pistol caliber greatly reduces that abuse. it makes follow up shots much easier.

in border states they make outstanding defensive weapons in urban areas that have become extremely violent due to the lack of border security by george bush and barrack obama. not to mention eric holder and obama selling massive amounts of firearms to the drug lords on purpose.

civilians have far more right to be armed with military style firearms than police departments and the actual military does. the governments ability to have weapons comes from the civilians not the other way round and that is whats been long forgotten

a better question is what right does the police and military have for access to such weapons while denying them to the civilian population...
Yes, that's what I've told anyone who would listen. We should be able to own fully automatic firearms of any nature.Ive been looking to get one of those Ump .45's in the sbr semi-auto nature. Ive seen a couple on gunbroker.com but can't really find reviews on those specific configurations. Hk does make some good subguns indeed. Thanks for the input guys. About to go find me some subguns for my home defense gun .
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:54 AM   #10
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SOME folks (Thank God, not me) live in areas where possession of a handgun is dang near impossible. But a pistol caliber semi-auto carbine IS allowed. In which case, that would look pretty good to me. If I can't have a 1911A1, then a Ruger Camp .45 would be a good second.

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