Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion > stupid question I'm sure

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-20-2012, 09:01 PM   #1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 37
Default stupid question I'm sure

Can some please explain the difference between m4 type AR 15's and whatever else their is? I swear I have memory loss, every time I learn, within 2 minutes its gone again. Also if .223 and 5.56 are different? I'm hearing different things. Thanks.



__________________
tbruins37 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 01-20-2012, 09:14 PM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrWray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,372
Liked 1000 Times on 598 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

The m4 is the M16s counterpart, the M4 is a carbine rifle with collapsible stock,14.5 barrel, and select fire capability.



__________________

Semper paratus.....virtute et armis


Last edited by MrWray; 01-20-2012 at 09:22 PM.
MrWray is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 09:21 PM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrWray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,372
Liked 1000 Times on 598 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

There is an argument that the .223 and the 5.56 is different from one another. Its said that the military designated 5.56 nato round fires at higher pressures then the civilian designated .223 round. I cant argue the claims because i havent took the time to research it. I do know that its the same bullet and the same casing

__________________

Semper paratus.....virtute et armis

MrWray is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 09:22 PM   #4
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jpyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sewell,NJ
Posts: 4,815
Liked 762 Times on 441 Posts
Likes Given: 457

Default

For civilian markets an M4 type AR generally refers to a carbine length gas system, 16" or shorter barrel, a certain barrel profile and a collapsing or adjustable stock. Other AR types will have an appearance more like the M16. Other than overall length and a different felt recoil due to the gas system length there is little difference, in fact many carbines will sport rifle features and vice versa.

.223 and 5.56 are similar but not identical cartridges. It is safe to use .223 in a 5.56 chambered rifle but not the other way around. A hybrid Wylde chambered rifle will safely fire both. Case thickness and pressure differences plus minor differences in other key dimensions are the source of the differences.

__________________

"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

Jpyle is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 09:50 PM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Firearms4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Roanoke,Virginia
Posts: 1,757
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

The M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel, collaspable stock, and has select fire capability (semi automatic and three round burst). The M4A1 has the same features, but can accept an M203 gernade launcher and the select fire on it is semi automatic and full automatic. The AR15 is the civilian counterpart of the M16/M4, because it has no select fire capability and varies in different barrel lenghts. AR15's can range from a variety of barrel lenghts such as 20 inches to 8.5 inches. Regarding the .223 and 5.56x45mm cartridges the difference between them is the .223 is lower preassured and the shoulder angle on it is different from the 5.56x45mm. Jyple mentioned some of the other differences that I was unaware of.

__________________

"It's a gun you loaded on Sunday, and shot all week."
-Confederate Soldier

"If God didn't create man equal then Sam Colt had made them equal."
-Unknown

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything."
-Wyatt Earp

Firearms4ever is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:10 PM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jpattersonnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South central,NH
Posts: 4,955
Liked 694 Times on 475 Posts
Likes Given: 712

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpyle View Post
For civilian markets an M4 type AR generally refers to a carbine length gas system, 16" or shorter barrel, a certain barrel profile and a collapsing or adjustable stock. Other AR types will have an appearance more like the M16. Other than overall length and a different felt recoil due to the gas system length there is little difference, in fact many carbines will sport rifle features and vice versa.

.223 and 5.56 are similar but not identical cartridges. It is safe to use .223 in a 5.56 chambered rifle but not the other way around. A hybrid Wylde chambered rifle will safely fire both. Case thickness and pressure differences plus minor differences in other key dimensions are the source of the differences.
Lets not forget a CIP chamber uses both. The 5.56 chamber fires both safely.
__________________

Freedom is not free. The best of us always leave too soon.

jpattersonnh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:17 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrWray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 6,372
Liked 1000 Times on 598 Posts
Likes Given: 16

Default

I refer to my rifle as an M4, all mine is missing is the select fire. Its a designated mil-spec 5.56nato,has collapsible stock,14.5" barrel, and has the stepped barrel to accomodate an M203.

__________________

Semper paratus.....virtute et armis

MrWray is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 11:28 PM   #8
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Paladin201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis,MO
Posts: 445
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

This is sure to start up the age old argument again, but there is a definite difference between .223 and 5.56. The 5.56 allows for a thicker case than .223. Now, for those getting out their micrometers and measuring their cases, the spec does NOT mean that all 5.56 cases are automatically thicker than .223. It just means that the spec allows it. The 5.56 spec also allows for higher chamber pressures than .223. Again, for those getting out their test equipment, or looking up statistics, this does NOT mean that all 5.56 ammo is loaded to higher pressures. Just that the spec allows it. Very few commercial manufacturers load ammo to the max limits, for obvious liability reasons. There is also a difference between a .223 barrel and a 5.56 barrel. Many military 5.56 loads use a longer, heavier bullet than a typical .223. So the 5.56 spec calls for a longer throat.

It is perfectly OK to shoot .223 ammo in a 5.56 chambered gun, although you may see a slight drop in accuracy. It is not always safe to do the reverse. Shooting 5.56 in a gun chambered for .223 may be dangerous. Notice I said it may be dangerous. All guns are not made equal. Nor is all ammo. I guess the ultimate test is to call the manufacturer of a .223 gun and ask THEM if it's safe to shoot 5.56 in their gun. I have. The answer isn't just no, it's usually HELL NO!

P.S. Sorry jpattersonnh, didn't read your post closely. We basically said the same thing.

__________________

Last edited by Paladin201; 01-20-2012 at 11:31 PM.
Paladin201 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 12:28 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jpattersonnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: South central,NH
Posts: 4,955
Liked 694 Times on 475 Posts
Likes Given: 712

Default

Don't apologize. Information is what this site is about. You added more info just as I did. It's all good.

__________________

Freedom is not free. The best of us always leave too soon.

jpattersonnh is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 03:01 PM   #10
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
303tom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,448
Liked 1142 Times on 783 Posts
Likes Given: 1149

Default

.223 Rem. & 5.56x45 NATO..............



400px-.223_remington.jpg   400px-5.56x45mm_nato.jpg  
__________________

When all else fails.

303tom is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
stupid question Norman99 Optics & Mounts 2 01-08-2012 01:46 AM
Might be a stupid question.... g17frantz 1911 Forum 3 08-22-2011 03:17 AM
Stupid question Kain Revolver Handguns 8 07-15-2011 10:20 PM
stupid question dragunovsks The Club House 6 10-31-2008 09:53 PM



Newest Threads