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-   -   stupid question I'm sure (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/stupid-question-im-sure-55937/)

tbruins37 01-20-2012 09:01 PM

stupid question I'm sure
 
Can some please explain the difference between m4 type AR 15's and whatever else their is? I swear I have memory loss, every time I learn, within 2 minutes its gone again. Also if .223 and 5.56 are different? I'm hearing different things. Thanks.

MrWray 01-20-2012 09:14 PM

The m4 is the M16s counterpart, the M4 is a carbine rifle with collapsible stock,14.5 barrel, and select fire capability.

MrWray 01-20-2012 09:21 PM

There is an argument that the .223 and the 5.56 is different from one another. Its said that the military designated 5.56 nato round fires at higher pressures then the civilian designated .223 round. I cant argue the claims because i havent took the time to research it. I do know that its the same bullet and the same casing

Jpyle 01-20-2012 09:22 PM

For civilian markets an M4 type AR generally refers to a carbine length gas system, 16" or shorter barrel, a certain barrel profile and a collapsing or adjustable stock. Other AR types will have an appearance more like the M16. Other than overall length and a different felt recoil due to the gas system length there is little difference, in fact many carbines will sport rifle features and vice versa.

.223 and 5.56 are similar but not identical cartridges. It is safe to use .223 in a 5.56 chambered rifle but not the other way around. A hybrid Wylde chambered rifle will safely fire both. Case thickness and pressure differences plus minor differences in other key dimensions are the source of the differences.

Firearms4ever 01-20-2012 09:50 PM

The M4 has a 14.5 inch barrel, collaspable stock, and has select fire capability (semi automatic and three round burst). The M4A1 has the same features, but can accept an M203 gernade launcher and the select fire on it is semi automatic and full automatic. The AR15 is the civilian counterpart of the M16/M4, because it has no select fire capability and varies in different barrel lenghts. AR15's can range from a variety of barrel lenghts such as 20 inches to 8.5 inches. Regarding the .223 and 5.56x45mm cartridges the difference between them is the .223 is lower preassured and the shoulder angle on it is different from the 5.56x45mm. Jyple mentioned some of the other differences that I was unaware of.

jpattersonnh 01-20-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jpyle (Post 683436)
For civilian markets an M4 type AR generally refers to a carbine length gas system, 16" or shorter barrel, a certain barrel profile and a collapsing or adjustable stock. Other AR types will have an appearance more like the M16. Other than overall length and a different felt recoil due to the gas system length there is little difference, in fact many carbines will sport rifle features and vice versa.

.223 and 5.56 are similar but not identical cartridges. It is safe to use .223 in a 5.56 chambered rifle but not the other way around. A hybrid Wylde chambered rifle will safely fire both. Case thickness and pressure differences plus minor differences in other key dimensions are the source of the differences.

Lets not forget a CIP chamber uses both. The 5.56 chamber fires both safely.

MrWray 01-20-2012 10:17 PM

I refer to my rifle as an M4, all mine is missing is the select fire. Its a designated mil-spec 5.56nato,has collapsible stock,14.5" barrel, and has the stepped barrel to accomodate an M203.

Paladin201 01-20-2012 11:28 PM

This is sure to start up the age old argument again, but there is a definite difference between .223 and 5.56. The 5.56 allows for a thicker case than .223. Now, for those getting out their micrometers and measuring their cases, the spec does NOT mean that all 5.56 cases are automatically thicker than .223. It just means that the spec allows it. The 5.56 spec also allows for higher chamber pressures than .223. Again, for those getting out their test equipment, or looking up statistics, this does NOT mean that all 5.56 ammo is loaded to higher pressures. Just that the spec allows it. Very few commercial manufacturers load ammo to the max limits, for obvious liability reasons. There is also a difference between a .223 barrel and a 5.56 barrel. Many military 5.56 loads use a longer, heavier bullet than a typical .223. So the 5.56 spec calls for a longer throat.

It is perfectly OK to shoot .223 ammo in a 5.56 chambered gun, although you may see a slight drop in accuracy. It is not always safe to do the reverse. Shooting 5.56 in a gun chambered for .223 may be dangerous. Notice I said it may be dangerous. All guns are not made equal. Nor is all ammo. I guess the ultimate test is to call the manufacturer of a .223 gun and ask THEM if it's safe to shoot 5.56 in their gun. I have. The answer isn't just no, it's usually HELL NO!

P.S. Sorry jpattersonnh, didn't read your post closely. We basically said the same thing.

jpattersonnh 01-21-2012 12:28 PM

Don't apologize. Information is what this site is about. You added more info just as I did. It's all good.

303tom 01-21-2012 03:01 PM

2 Attachment(s)
.223 Rem. & 5.56x45 NATO..............


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