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-   -   spanish fr8 (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/spanish-fr8-20669/)

jaywmu 12-02-2009 08:13 PM

spanish fr8
 
what is the general opinion of the spanish fr8. i bought one at dunhams some years ago for $160. now i see they are selling for $350-400. did they really go up in value? i like the looks and the fact that its short, almost like a poor mans mini 14. but i can't see it being worth that much, even in good shape.

jpattersonnh 12-03-2009 01:51 PM

The FR8 is a training rifle. The Spainish converted '98 actions to make a trainer for the Cetme. Great rifle and yes, they have gone through the roof collectors wise.

M14sRock 12-04-2009 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpattersonnh (Post 193582)
The FR8 is a training rifle. The Spainish converted '98 actions to make a trainer for the Cetme. Great rifle and yes, they have gone through the roof collectors wise.

They were also "Civil Guard" rifles for the reserves. Great rifles.

robocop10mm 12-04-2009 03:13 AM

I love my FR-8. They were all over the place 20 years ago for $150. There are no more being imported so they are increasing in value.

jpattersonnh 12-04-2009 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robocop10mm (Post 193911)
I love my FR-8. They were all over the place 20 years ago for $150. There are no more being imported so they are increasing in value.


Actually a bunch of FR-7's and 8's just came in. The Civil Gaurdia FR7 in mass.

robocop10mm 12-04-2009 12:23 PM

Really? I had not heard that. I amy have to ger an FR-7 to round out the Spanish collection. Please don't get started on the "is the FR-7 safe in .308?". I know it is a small ring action and 'potentially" not as strong as the large ring FR-8. I shoot reduced loads in all my antique rifles.
If someone is stupid enough to shoot full power ammo through a 70+ year old rifle, maybe a bolt or cocking piece through the eye socket is just Darwinism.

jpattersonnh 12-04-2009 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robocop10mm (Post 193987)
Really? I had not heard that. I amy have to ger an FR-7 to round out the Spanish collection. Please don't get started on the "is the FR-7 safe in .308?". I know it is a small ring action and 'potentially" not as strong as the large ring FR-8. I shoot reduced loads in all my antique rifles.
If someone is stupid enough to shoot full power ammo through a 70+ year old rifle, maybe a bolt or cocking piece through the eye socket is just Darwinism.

Ya mean it ain't safe? ;)
PM sent on wholesaler.

robocop10mm 12-04-2009 09:54 PM

SAAMI max pressure specs for 7 X 57 is 51,000 PSI
SAAMI max pressure spec for .308 Win is 62,000 PSI

The FR-7 is a small ring action originally chambered in 7 X 57 (7mm Mauser). The small ring action has two locking lugs. The later large ring action has a third (safety) lug and is considered stronger.

Will the FR-7 blow up in your face the first time you shoot a modern .308 round through it? Probably not.

It is not "rated" for that much pressure. The receiver is over 70 years old. It is unknown how the receiver was treated over those years.

At the very least I would;
A. Have it tested (magnafluxed)
B. Handload reduced power ammo for it. (a 150 gr soft point at 2400-2500 fps is just as deadly)

superc 06-05-2010 04:55 PM

Gotta throw in my two cents worth, the issue is Spain used a reduced load for their NATO 7.62 CETME and the bolt actions. Spanish military ammo is loaded to about 20% less pressure than the rest of NATO's. Therefore they had no pressure issue using that stuff in their old bolt actions (essentially a simple barrel swap from 7mm) until they could get all of their military outfitted with the self loading rifle. The issue of a US importer someday buying their surplus rifles and bringing them to a country where the ammo is hotter wasn't Spain's concern in those days.

US NATO and commercial .308 will therefore fit into the chamber and will shoot too. However, you need to realize there will be pressure issues. Heat treating has changed a lot since 1916. Steel formulations have changed too.

One of the 7.62 1916 carbines was my first .308 rifle. $60 if my memory serves. Zeroed it with US Military surplus Match 7.62mm ammo. Dropped it into a new stock, accraglassed it, lowered the top of the rear sight a hair so it was dead on at 100 yds. instead of 330, and proceeded to take about 14 or so deer with it over the next 4 or 5 years, using Remington .308 SP ammo. Weighs about 7 pounds. It was shelved before learning about the ammo issue. It was shelved simply because 7.62/.308 is not the best choice for Bambi at close range (5 to 25 yards). I don't like exit holes and deer that run away. I prefer a more efficient energy transfer and when I found one, the 1916 was shelved for use as a loaner rifle. I can report no ammo problems were ever observed here. Maybe 200 rounds of commercial .308 hunting and US 7.62 military ammo were fired in it. No stretch rings on the cases, no enlargement of primer pockets, no observable battering or cracks in the locking lugs. I have looked for such warning signs and not found them. Still I have loaded about 30 rounds of reduced power ammo just in case a day ever comes when that 1916 is wanted again.

Bigdog57 06-06-2010 02:47 AM

Only the CETME 'A' and 'B' models used the 'reduced load' - the common Modelo 'C', which our Spanish Ladies are based on, were designed for standard 7.62X51 loads, as was the FR8 Mauser- this has been verified by Spanish owners reading from the original manuals.
The FR7 and M1916 Guardia Civil were tested some while back by an independent lab - they NEVER had one kaboom using factory .308Win ammo.
In my online reading, I have NEVER read of a verifiable case of one of these rifles kabooming with factory ammo - the few that have occured were due to HOT handloading. There HAVE been Spanish Mausers suffering bolt lug setback - easy to check for.
I load 7.62X51 to moderate levels for my M1916 and FR8, just to be safe. The CETME gets full power 7.62X51, same as it's designed Santa Barbara ammo is rated at. I find my CETME far more forgiving of ammo variances than the average 'gas rifle'. I do keep to the 147 - 150 grain bullet weight, as that is what the roller locking system is timed for.
I had paid $240 for my FR8 a few years back, and have been well pleased with it. Recoil is manageable, not as bad as an 8mm Mauser or the Russian M44 carbine.


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