Shooting ability or equipment?
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View Poll Results: Shooter ability vs equipment cost
More shooter ability 45 78.95%
50 50 shooter ability matters the same as equipment cost 10 17.54%
What are you stupid equipment is much more important than ability. 2 3.51%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-26-2010, 09:47 AM   #1
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Default Shooting ability or equipment?

OK we are seeing a lot of My gun and scope is better than your gun and scope there for your opinion is invalid.

I see it as a balancing act between Shooter ability. I believe it is 70% shooter ability vs 20% equipment vs 10% just luck. We all know that even if I set a kid down behind a $3k bench gun with a $2500 scope on top. More than likely he is going to turn in an outstanding group because the rifle can. But, from a practical stand point. If you don't have a firm grasp on the basics of Rifle Marksmanship your not going to shoot as good as someone else. I also believe fittness as some influance on how you shoot as well. I know I shot better when I didn't have a Texas sized muffin top hanging off my waist.

Will a piss poor shoot shot better with a high dollar rig? Maybe from the bench because you are taking quite a bit of shooter out of the equation. Take that same piss poor shooter and hand him a regular rifle make him shoot from standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone and see how he does vs someone who is a good all around shooter. I am sure you will see night and day difference in shooting ability vs equipment cost.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:19 AM   #2
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I believe it is the ability of the trigger yanker more so than the equipment. Just like in the world of cars. Take someone who is inexperienced at driving and put them in a ferrari and take a profesional racer and put them in a mustang and the racer is going to win every time. Same with guns.

Sure having better equipment will undoubtedly have an impact on your results but having good solid fundementals is more important than anything else when firing a gun. I believe this is more so demonstrated in pistols than rifles, as pistols IMO are all about the shooter. You dont have rests and sand bags to hold the gun steady while you work the trigger. Its all you. I would say a decent pistol will be capable of much more than most people can do. The same goes for rifles to a lesser extent.

In my opinion blaming your equipment is simply passing the buck. Granted it may very well be your equipment that is holding you back. I know for an absolute fact that no one on this forum or in the world could put 5 rounds from my mosin nagant through a 5 inch hole at 100 yards (unless its pure luck) because my mosin nagant puts 20 inch groups at about 15 yards. The rounds tumble immediately upon leaving the barrel. In general though the blame rests squarly on the shooters shoulders. Give the average Joe a remington 700 or a (insert any ~moa rifle here) and the rifle is going to be capable of far more than they are without lots of practice.

Ive seen people come to the range with all their fancy gear and $1000 optics and $1500 rifles and get outshot by open sight k98's. When they walk in and see me and my friends huddled over a bunch of 70+ year old rifles they generally turn their noses up. After they shoot we compliment them on their nice stuff.... Point is, the rifle doesnt make the shooter.

I agree with your percentages tango.

Edit: I think equipment COST has nothing to do with it. Its all quality. There is garbage out there that costs lots of money too.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpttango30 View Post
OK we are seeing a lot of My gun and scope is better than your gun and scope there for your opinion is invalid.

I see it as a balancing act between Shooter ability. I believe it is 70% shooter ability vs 20% equipment vs 10% just luck. We all know that even if I set a kid down behind a $3k bench gun with a $2500 scope on top. More than likely he is going to turn in an outstanding group because the rifle can. But, from a practical stand point. If you don't have a firm grasp on the basics of Rifle Marksmanship your not going to shoot as good as someone else. I also believe fittness as some influance on how you shoot as well. I know I shot better when I didn't have a Texas sized muffin top hanging off my waist.

Will a piss poor shoot shot better with a high dollar rig? Maybe from the bench because you are taking quite a bit of shooter out of the equation. Take that same piss poor shooter and hand him a regular rifle make him shoot from standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone and see how he does vs someone who is a good all around shooter. I am sure you will see night and day difference in shooting ability vs equipment cost.
Quoted just because I wanted to see that again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory2 View Post
Ive seen people come to the range with all their fancy gear and $1000 optics and $1500 rifles and get outshot by open sight k98's.
Around here that is known as "having the most talent money can buy."
A few middle age guys show up at every match with the best, of the best, of the best. All the latest & greatest. And get out scored by the 75-80 year old guy that's been shooting the same rifle since the 1950's....

What's that old saying about the guy that only owns one gun?
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:17 PM   #4
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A lot of it depends on equipment but a lot of it depends on shooter too. I have a rifle I had built for 1000 yard matches but I suck at it. My gunsmith could shoot it with my handloads much better than I ever could. I can put five rounds into a slightly egg shaped hole at 100 yds and make tiny clover leafs at 200 but much past three and my groups open up dramatically. Some people have it and some don't.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:40 PM   #5
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good equipment will not make a bad shooter better. good equipment will allow a good shooter to get more out of the equipment.

its the man not the machine.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #6
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Good equipment can make a good shooter better. It will not make a bad shooter better. I have shot the pants off of a gent who was shooting a $2500 rifle, using a WW II Mossberg 44US- about a $200 rifle. Did I gloat? Damn skippy I did!
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #7
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I get people all the time asking "what accessories do you recommend for my new rifle?". My only answer is "a case of ammo". This is especially true with the AR's and AK's. Practice, practice, practice. Plink, shoot off sandbags, try your hand at 300+ yards. Get familiar with your gear and you will learn its shortcomings.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:17 PM   #8
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boy i would sure like the greatest and best. butt what fun would that be
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:41 PM   #9
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If you can shoot, you can shoot. If you can't, you can't. A high dollar rifle won't make anyone shoot better and only in the hands of a good shooter will the benefits of that extra money be seen.
If you don't practice the basics and know your weapon I don't care how much you've spent on your rig, you won't be as good as the guy who does.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:49 PM   #10
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It seems that most people have no clue as to the 3 basic shooting positions. Most ranges these days only allow shooting off the bench, so the shooters skills are never honed. Shooting from a bench w/ a $1500.00 rig at 100 yards will never make a proficient hunter at 100+ yards if at all. Shooting offhand is not as easy as these guys think. Just because the rifle is capable does not mean the shooter is. Knowledge of your equipment is crutial.
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