Serial number and mark?
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Old 08-29-2010, 07:00 AM   #1
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Default Serial number and mark?

I will try and ask this the best I can with example.

I was told by a local gunsmith that if they put my rifle together they have to put "their mark" on my rifle. I understand major companie's like the people building barrel's and action's and what not. I want to know if there is a way around this by doing this.

Say I was to purchase all the parts for this rifle myself and put it together. Than I decided I wanted to send it all in to be put together. The dang rifle already has serial number's and the maker's all over it. If I was to say I don't want anything on it is this possible? Or do I have to go take a gunsmithing course and do it myself? Or is it illegal for me to build a rifle with all the parts I was able to purchase? It all just doesn't make any sense to me if I am paying for something and I do not want another marker on it why I should have to have it put on... I know it's not like I am accepting the mark of the beast or anything but if I can avoid this in any way possible I wish to do so.

Thanks,
-Rip

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Old 08-29-2010, 09:08 AM   #2
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Depends on just what "putting your rifle together" means.

IF you have a completed AR lower, THAT is the gun by law. It already HAS a makers name, serial number, you filled out a 4473 when you bought it from a dealer, etc.

If you have an 80% lower, you are not having a smith "put it together"- an 80% lower is not YET a gun. But the act of completing the final 20% makes it into a gun. If YOU do that for ourself, no prob- you can make a gun for yourself. Can't be sold, but you can have it, hold it, shoot it. If someone else does that for you, then they are manufacturing a firearm, and have to do the things required by the BATFE- including pay taxes that may be required, mark with a serial number, name of maker, etc.

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Old 08-29-2010, 03:26 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Depends on just what "putting your rifle together" means.

IF you have a completed AR lower, THAT is the gun by law. It already HAS a makers name, serial number, you filled out a 4473 when you bought it from a dealer, etc.

If you have an 80% lower, you are not having a smith "put it together"- an 80% lower is not YET a gun. But the act of completing the final 20% makes it into a gun. If YOU do that for ourself, no prob- you can make a gun for yourself. Can't be sold, but you can have it, hold it, shoot it. If someone else does that for you, then they are manufacturing a firearm, and have to do the things required by the BATFE- including pay taxes that may be required, mark with a serial number, name of maker, etc.
Makes sense. This is going to be a bolt action gun though so it's nothing like a AR lower where it has a sere where it could be a semi-auto / full-auto. I thought I could just order a bolt from Surgeon Rifle's "for example" and everything else I needed w/o doing any paperwork.

Thanks much,
-Rip
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Old 08-29-2010, 05:18 PM   #4
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NY, CA and DC are all very hostile environments for gun owners. As soon as you obtain a receiver to hold the bolt (being very sure in NY that no part whatsoever of the new gun comes from anything that was ever full auto capable), in the eyes of the law, you have a gun. Since you are in NY, even a receiver you built yourself will probably need approval/registration. If you are using a receiver someone else already made (i.e., a mil surplus Mauser or Springfield's) then it was already stamped with a serial number long ago and that is the number you would primarily be using. In NYC (and possibly elsewhere in NY too) if you changed the caliber, like from 8mm to .308, "they" want to know about that too, and "they" may indeed want to put a new mark on it, if they approve it of course. I have no idea about what the current law in NY is on a non-gunsmith building a rifle from scratch. It is probably frowned upon.

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Old 08-30-2010, 12:20 AM   #5
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OK- bolt action- you have a barrel (parts) and a stock (parts) and a bolt (parts) and a receiver (gun). Under Federal law, the reciever, also called a frame, IS the gun. Everything else is parts. Bolt action, pumps, lever actions, single shot, etc. If a smith or dealer sells you a receiver- BARE- no other parts- it is still a gun, and must legally be treated as a gun. So, no, you cannot gather up all the pieces parts and put them together to make an "off the books" gun. And that is not even counting the fairly draconian NY State laws.

If you want to sit down with a block of steel, a file and a drill, and whittle yourself a reciever, it is legal under Federal law. Not smart, since it does not take into account things like heat treatment, fitting barrel to the receiver to adjust headspace, etc- but legal.

Certain other things are considered to be a firearm- such as a silencer, a destructive device (hand grenade), but the reciever is the thing. Here is a C&P from Title 18 US Code, section 922, that covers much (not all) of the Federal gun law:
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.

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Last edited by c3shooter; 08-30-2010 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:42 AM   #6
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Hopefully the state's win against the BATFE in Washington over the Firearms Freedom Act deal, than we won't have to worry about the anti-gun left wing extremist anymore.

I learned a lot here.
Thanks much,
-Rip

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