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Old 01-02-2012, 07:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CHLChris
I was thinking you had some new legal perspective or something, J. There are no limits about size of magazine for the Saiga or any other rifle, for that matter. I understand that there are certain laws that limit one's options for converting the Saiga. But those laws have nothing to do with magazine size, only the manner in which the magazine interacts with the rifle.

I think a major difference between lever guns and a semi- is the moment of reloading. A lever gun takes a LOOOOOOOOT longer to reload than a magazine-fed semi-automatic.
Your wrong about the magazine capacity issue

What is 922R?
Title 18 of the US Code (18 USC), Chapter 44 Section 922 provides guidance on unlawful acts as they relate to firearms. Section 922 Paragraph R states It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to-- (1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or (2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentati authorized by the Attorney General. "
Most of us don't fall under those exceptions, so we are left to deal with meeting compliance with the law"Sporting" Purposes Here's where things get a little tricky. Some rifles, such as the Saiga line, are imported for sporting purposes in a particular configuration. Generally, that means that do not incorporate any of the "evil" features that are typically associated with so-called "semi-automatic assault weapons".* Chapter 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations Section 478.11 defines these SAWs. Specific examples of these features include- High capacity (greater than 10 round for rifles, 5 rounds for shotgun) magazines- Pistol grip attachment- Folding buttstock- Muzzle device/attachment (to include a threaded barrel capable of receiving a device)- Bayonanet lugs.

With a stock unconverted saiga falling within these requirements,it would be ILLEGAL to use a magazine capable of holding over ten rounds. This limited magazine capacity is one of the features that gives the saiga rifle this sporting classification and allows them to be imported with no U.S. made parts


You are on a slippery slope if you decide to use anything other than the factory ten round mags,or you can find you just four U.S. made parts and swap them out and not worry about it. I doubt this is a law the batfe will hunt you down over but I'd rather be compliant. That being said saigas are still great rifles
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:17 AM   #12
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Makes me wonder a little bit about about this rifle now. Thanks for keeping with your message, J!

Oh well, 10-round mags may need to be my primaries until I switch out a part or 2 for US-made parts.

The main reason I am rejecting a full-on AK-47 is because I was hoping to stay away from a pistol grip and the (I hate this term!!!) "assault rifle" look. My purpose for this rifle is to have some major firepower but look less threatening if I'm walking around my neighborhood in a WROL situation.

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Old 01-03-2012, 05:07 AM   #13
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No problem. And about not wanting to attract anymore attention than the next gun-weilding Joe in a WROL situation,I would say a saiga can fill that role but in my head a good .357 levergun would do it much better. You have 10 rounds of .357 on hand, and with a little training and practice I'm sure you could build enough familiarity with the gun to get the tube topped off in a hurry,and i would imagine in most prolonged gun-fights there are usually lulls in combat in which to do this.

Not to mention that the .357 magnum really shines out of those longer rifle barrels,I've heard some standard loads and most all hot loads can achieve 1800 fps or more out of a levergun. That's a lot of firepower in a gun that looks like any hunters 4-shot 30-30 deer gun.

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Old 01-03-2012, 06:26 AM   #14
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Also you need a total of 4 U.S. made parts to be 922r complaint for use with full capacity mags,this can be achieved with a new fire control group (which counts as 3) And a new stock or forend.

I also just remembered that they make saiga 30-rounders that are entirely U.S. manufactured so those mags actually count for 3 922r compliant parts when inserted into the rifle (follower,spring,and baseplate I believe) and when using these mags all that would be needed to be legal would be one U.S. made part on the actual rifle. A new forend would cheaply and effectivly accomplish this without altering the rifles look substantially.


So now that I recalled that little fact I think both a saiga and a levergun would do you well in filling this particular niche.

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Old 01-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #15
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Truthfully, I really want BOTH a Saiga and a Marlin. My main question is which should come first? A big benefit of the .357 lever gun is that I could also fire my .38spl's. The big difference for where I sit right now is that the Saiga is about half the price.

Yep, my research (after your posts sparked me to look further into the issue) is that one single US part plus using a US-made magazine is all that's needed to fulfill 922r compliance. I didn't really want to believe it at first because those compliance rules really bump up hard against my leave-my-liberty-alone sensibilities!!

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Old 01-03-2012, 05:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHLChris
Truthfully, I really want BOTH a Saiga and a Marlin. My main question is which should come first? A big benefit of the .357 lever gun is that I could also fire my .38spl's. The big difference for where I sit right now is that the Saiga is about half the price.

Yep, my research (after your posts sparked me to look further into the issue) is that one single US part plus using a US-made magazine is all that's needed to fulfill 922r compliance. I didn't really want to believe it at first because those compliance rules really bump up hard against my leave-my-liberty-alone sensibilities!!
Yea same here,it really is a stupid law. They're basically saying that a gun made outside the U.S. is more "evil" than the same gun made here. But anywho I choose to get a saiga first and convert it since I don't have an ar-15 or other homeland defense style rifle,and am now on the lookout for a good deal on a .357 Marlin or even a Rossi.
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Old 01-06-2012, 10:42 PM   #17
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Default Saiga probably not gonna be my rifle...

There was a man in the Salem area of Oregon who shot his 7.62x39mm AK-47 while cleaning it. Oooooops. Went through a bunch of walls.

Here's the story.

I think I am going to stick to a lever-action .357mag. 9+1 is still pretty good. .357mag from an 18" barrel is still more than 1000 ft-lbs. but won't go through as many walls...

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Old 01-06-2012, 11:05 PM   #18
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the saiga .410 would be a good home defense as even the .410 buck shot would be pretty slow after going through a wall. The after market mags go up to 15 (surefire) from what ive seen. 410 buck or defense rounds as fast as you can pull the trigger with light recoil....nasty. http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx

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Old 01-07-2012, 05:43 AM   #19
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I think the simplicity of the pump action is what I'll be going for when needed. The Saiga 12-gauge looks really fun, but not really what I would use for this need. I still want something that will go 50 yards+ and hold in one piece the whole way. I suppose slugs would do that, but then that's not what the PDX1 round is all about, now is it?

Cattledog...I love to see supporting members that have such a young post count. Thanks for your voice! And from PDX, no less. Awesome!

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