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Old 07-30-2013, 06:58 PM   #41
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The man who designed the trigger said it has issues and there are videos of Marine snipers displaying the issues of AD. The who designed it told them VERY early on to recall and fix the issue.. These two facts alone convince me there is a real issue.

That said EVERY major manufacture of ANYTHING has some quality faults occasionally. I've been in manufacturing about a decade and seen it first hand.. To deny Marine snipers and the man who designed it is just ignoring the FACTS

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #42
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The man who designed the trigger said it has issues and there are videos of Marine snipers displaying the issues of AD. The who designed it told them VERY early on to recall and fix the issue.. These two facts alone convince me there is a real issue.

That said EVERY major manufacture of ANYTHING has some quality faults occasionally. I've been in manufacturing about a decade and seen it first hand.. To deny Marine snipers and the man who designed it is just ignoring the FACTS
sources and links please.

they issued memorandums to those in the military and LE that the triggers were only to adjusted by trained and qualified armorers. that many of the AD that did occur were due to improperly adjusted triggers.

i know that from improperly adjusting the trigger on a M700, that it can fire from being bumped or upon closure of the bolt. that is a fact. but when properly adjusted and the proper safety procedures are done, and the trigger is cleaned and maintained, i don't that it has any problems. i have owned many, many M700's over the years, and have felt nothing but confidence in using them. military and LE must have confidence in the M700 platform, because they still continue to use them.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:05 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Axxe55

sources and links please.

they issued memorandums to those in the military and LE that the triggers were only to adjusted by trained and qualified armorers. that many of the AD that did occur were due to improperly adjusted triggers.

i know that from improperly adjusting the trigger on a M700, that it can fire from being bumped or upon closure of the bolt. that is a fact. but when properly adjusted and the proper safety procedures are done, and the trigger is cleaned and maintained, i don't that it has any problems. i have owned many, many M700's over the years, and have felt nothing but confidence in using them. military and LE must have confidence in the M700 platform, because they still continue to use them.
I think we both know the source is the same NBC article/report which is discredited due to it being a liberal outlet.
In that report they interviewed the designer of the trigger, a North Carolina man I believe and he said he advised Remington to recall and redesign the trigger. There were/are also internal documents shown backing his claim. If we watch the report bipartitely in its entirety we see this for what it is.
As far as the the military use goes, we both know soldiers have no say so in who the government does business with. These contracts are not only performance of the weapon based but money based and options vary..
I will not deny that proper maintenance is a factor along with adjustment. IMO the most important factor is following the golden rules of gun safety, if these were followed most if not all AD/ND could be avoided.

I'm the end, if the price was right I'd own a 700, I'm in no way against Remington AT ALL.. But I'm not going to discredit the triggers designer, discredit the internal documents simply because of the source. I like to view things with both eyes and take it all into consideration.

Again these are kick ass rifles, I'd love to own one, but the potential for a AD/ND is real.
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Old 07-30-2013, 08:14 PM   #44
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I think we both know the source is the same NBC article/report which is discredited due to it being a liberal outlet.
In that report they interviewed the designer of the trigger, a North Carolina man I believe and he said he advised Remington to recall and redesign the trigger. There were/are also internal documents shown backing his claim. If we watch the report bipartitely in its entirety we see this for what it is.
As far as the the military use goes, we both know soldiers have no say so in who the government does business with. These contracts are not only performance of the weapon based but money based and options vary..
I will not deny that proper maintenance is a factor along with adjustment. IMO the most important factor is following the golden rules of gun safety, if these were followed most if not all AD/ND could be avoided.

I'm the end, if the price was right I'd own a 700, I'm in no way against Remington AT ALL.. But I'm not going to discredit the triggers designer, discredit the internal documents simply because of the source. I like to view things with both eyes and take it all into consideration.

Again these are kick ass rifles, I'd love to own one, but the potential for a AD/ND is real.
i'm sorry but, in over 40 years of shooting and owning M700's, from those in the early 60's to currently made rifles, i have yet to see, or experiance a AD r ND with a M700.

yes in some instances, for the military, it is about money, but even the less expensive model they choose stil has to meet certain criteria, regardless of price. it still has to meet their performance specifications before being chosen as well. if they test five different rifles, and all five meet the criteria and meet or exceed their performance requirements, only then does it come down to which one has the lowest price. only factor that price plays here for the military, is that the M700 does what the others do, just at a better price point.
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Old 07-30-2013, 10:16 PM   #45
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I own two Remingtons, a Wingmaster and an M-91, both are great guns.

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Old 07-31-2013, 02:48 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxe55

i'm sorry but, in over 40 years of shooting and owning M700's, from those in the early 60's to currently made rifles, i have yet to see, or experiance a AD r ND with a M700.

yes in some instances, for the military, it is about money, but even the less expensive model they choose stil has to meet certain criteria, regardless of price. it still has to meet their performance specifications before being chosen as well. if they test five different rifles, and all five meet the criteria and meet or exceed their performance requirements, only then does it come down to which one has the lowest price. only factor that price plays here for the military, is that the M700 does what the others do, just at a better price point.
The report in question showed a video of marines demonstrating the issue. The guy in the video appeared to just touch the bolt and bam, it fired.
It's been awhile since I've seen it but I believe he repeated it. I honestly don't care enough to search for the video but it is out there. If you have not seen it, its interesting. Again, I've got nothing against Remington at all.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:51 AM   #47
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The report in question showed a video of marines demonstrating the issue. The guy in the video appeared to just touch the bolt and bam, it fired.
It's been awhile since I've seen it but I believe he repeated it. I honestly don't care enough to search for the video but it is out there. If you have not seen it, its interesting. Again, I've got nothing against Remington at all.
I've seen it, but who's to say that rifle was still up to factory specs? As said earlier if you adjust the trigger wrong, or let it get extremely dirty, it will not function properly and could even make the gun dangerous.
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:56 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsp0t View Post
The report in question showed a video of marines demonstrating the issue. The guy in the video appeared to just touch the bolt and bam, it fired.
It's been awhile since I've seen it but I believe he repeated it. I honestly don't care enough to search for the video but it is out there. If you have not seen it, its interesting. Again, I've got nothing against Remington at all.
actually i have seen it a couple of years ago, when i was watching and reading up on some of the lawsuits against Remington. that was why the military issued instructions on soldiers not doing their own trigger adjustments, and they were to be done only by trained and qualified armorers.

this is been why that i have always said that trigger work should never be done by those who have no real knowledge of how the trigger works, or don't know what they are doing. the trigger is one of the important safety features of any firearm. screwing around with it, and not being careful, is surefire way of getting someone hurt or killed.
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Old 07-31-2013, 06:39 AM   #49
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Unfortunately, Remington isnt what they used to be. They used to take alot of pride in their products, now its about an extra buck. They still have the best factory barrel and action tho, in my opinion.

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Old 07-31-2013, 11:21 PM   #50
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Unfortunately, Remington isnt what they used to be. They used to take alot of pride in their products, now its about an extra buck. They still have the best factory barrel and action tho, in my opinion.
they do and they don't. buy one of the least expensive M700's vs. a really nice CDL Deluxe version and you will see a huge difference in quality. but also a huge difference in price. huge difference in prices than what they use to be many years ago.

case in point. look at what a current Winchester M70 Sporter Super Grade goes for, MSRP of $1299. the same rifle my father has he bought in the 1960's new for less than $200. the least expensive M70 has a MSRP of $759.
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