[Snakedriver]

Originally Posted by patret

Mr Dillinger,

Please read the Army report concerning the battle of the Ia Drang valley where m16`s were laying everywhere and most were jammed. They were laying next to the bodies of dead soldiers. Some squads had only four or five rifles working. They will not work very well in a military role. The Marines had the same problem. I would not own a M16 because of these problems. This is a statement from history and not from me. Some information is contained in the book called "we were soldiers once and young" written by LT. Gen. Harold Moore. I hope I have explained to you my position and reasoning.

patret

As a result of the report of failures in the M-16 in those early days of the Vietnam War, changes were quickly made to correct the issues being suffered by the rifle for soldiers in the field. Some of them include a change to a ball powder in the 5.56mm round, adding a forward assist on the bolt, issuing a cleaning kit to every soldier (they thought it wouldn't need cleaning???) and most importantly adding the chrome lining back into the barrel that had been cutout of the of the early rifles as a cost savings measure. Once the changes were made the reliability of the M-16 went back up.

We now return you to the Mini-14 thread:

[Underdog]

I own 2 newer 580 series mini 14's with the tapered barrel. Both are very accurate and reliable out of the box and shoot anything I put through them. I had an older model several years ago and sold it, wish I never did that. I've never had a problem with accuracy with any of them and I'm talking 2"-3" groups at 100, that is plenty good for me. I've installed recoil buffers in both rifles and they make a nice difference. I would highly recommend a mini, especially a newer one to anyone looking for a HD or fun rifle.

[patret]

The Ruger Mini-14 was almost adopted by the Army as it`s rifle but it came out after the M16. The Ruger was designed to shoot the Rem 233 and not the 5.56 Nato. It has a gas system that vents the spent gas into the front part of the stock. It has a fixed-piston gas operating rod. Both this and the gas cylinder should be cleaned after about 300 rounds or it will jam.

I have shoot the Mini 14 and the M16 and they are both about the same in accuracy. I consider the Ruger to be more reliable because it does not use the direct impingement gas system as the AR 15. The Ruger is more easy to clean properly. I am referring to the chamber of a Ruger since it has only two locking lugs as compared to the AR15 which has 6 or seven locking lugs. The direct impingement gas system can be looked up in Wikipedia so you can see what type it is. All Ar 15 fans need to do this before they form a opinion.

We used to call the m4 type M16 the CAR 15. The Mini 14 has never been in heavy combat. The M16 has not been in heavy combat since Vietnam. We were issued M16`s after the Air force used them. We turned them back in and reverted back to the M2 carbines and the M14 along with whatever we wanted to carry. We had a choice unlike many of the other troops

The Mini 14 is a good rifle.

patret

[jeffware]

i had a very detailed book that covered the entire development of the m-16. unfortunately i gave it away. the bottom line from what i remember it that the ONLY reason the m-16 failed in it's initial usage in nam was that it was very specifically designed for a certain type of powder in the ammo. the idiot bean counters then deployed the weapon with a less expensive type of powder in the ammo to save a few dollars... and you know the rest. yes, other improvements were later made, but the powder type WAS the killer. i think that the m-16 is a suberb/ lightweight/ reliable/ accurate/ easy to shoot rifle. i prefer the mini-14 due to availibility in stainless and lower cost. thank all of you for your inputs. jeff.

[cpttango30]

The Ruger Mini-14 was almost adopted by the Army as it`s rifle but it came out after the M16.

I searched and searched for this info. Please provide a link to the information thanks.

[Charley]

FWIW I don't really think most people that buy Mini's are really interested in making them long range target rifles. Seems to me like the Mini is kind of like the 'ol west lever gun. Something easier to shoot than a handgun with a larger ammo load in a bigger caliber with a better site system that can hammer anything it desires with authority. For me a 2 inch group inside say....50 yds. and 2 to 3 at 100 yds. would be fine since what I'm looking for most would be that it's reliable and goes bang every time.

It has always puzzled me though that the same people that put down the Mini sing the praises of the AK which isn't exactly a target rifle either.

One thing I do know for sure...................

I bet the FBI down in Miami Fla. in April of '86 wishes that Michael Platt had been wielding a less efective weapon than the Mini 14 rifle he was using that day.

[slowgt]

I have 2 mini 14 both have never give me a prob at all!!! And with stock gun it does everything i want it to do and very accurate!! Dont belive all the ar nutrides dont get me wrong the ar is a nice gun ,But I keep my mini !!!!!

[cpttango30]

Something easier to shoot than a handgun with a larger ammo load in a bigger caliber

Most lever guns were the same caliber as the guys pistol in the old west.

[patret]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

I searched and searched for this info. Please provide a link to the information thanks.

Please refer to the small arms of the world "12 edition,1983". The Ruger rifle was called the ruger mini 14 GB. Look at the design dates. The M16 rifle was the only design for the 5.56 mm when it was adopted.

patret

[Charley]

Originally Posted by cpttango30

Most lever guns were the same caliber as the guys pistol in the old west.

Yeah........My bad
I was thinking more about the easier to shoot part than the caliber............