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Old 05-11-2014, 12:12 PM   #11
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The 44 mag isn't in the same ballpark as a 30/30 even when fired from a rifle. Most 30/30 cartridges deliver almost twice the energy as a 44 mag fired from an 18" barrel. Hunters are not as stupid as you might think. If a 44 mag was superior to a 30/30 every hunter would have a 44 mag carbine. 44 ammo is less expensive than 30/30 ammo.

I am not going to clutter this thread with a bunch of math. You can go to ballistics by the inch and see the energy of a 44 mag fired from a rifle and you can see the ballistics of the 30/30 at ballistics101. Plus with a 30/30 you have a soft point bullet with a much better ballistic coefficient than any bullet you can get for a 44 mag.

Then you want to say a 223 is just as effective as a 243. That is another thread.
30-30 and 44 out of rifles deliver same foot pounds of energy. Except the 44 has a larger diameter and heavier bullet. This imparts more of its energy into the target.

Once you get past 100 yards the 30-30 is a bit better but not by much. People have used the cartridge for deer forever but its not what i consider a great one for deer. The 44mag is a better one for deer.

And yes the 44mag is very widely used for deer and has been for a longtime. Just because it was originally a pistol round doesnt mean its not a good deer cartridge.

243 i said was on par with 223 in terms of deer hunting sub par. If you like tracking wounded deer use a 243 or 223.

The op is doing nothing wrong by choosing a 44 rifle for pretty much any use from hunting to plinking to target shooting. The ruger carbines are superbly accurate and chambered in 44mag its a very hard hitting round.


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Old 05-11-2014, 12:46 PM   #12
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Hi Rogue: That is one pretty Red hawk. But I think my pair is check mate. The Super Black Hawk is the king of the mountain.

Julio
Really nice looking pair Julio especially if the Super Black Hawk is comfortable for you. I've never been able to get comfortable with it; something about the squared off trigger guard that doesn't work for me. I do better with a plain old Black Hawk. One thing I can say with 100% certainty though; when you are out in the woods with that setup; you are well armed


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Old 05-11-2014, 01:21 PM   #13
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30-30 and 44 out of rifles deliver same foot pounds of energy. Except the 44 has a larger diameter and heavier bullet. This imparts more of its energy into the target.

Once you get past 100 yards the 30-30 is a bit better but not by much. People have used the cartridge for deer forever but its not what i consider a great one for deer. The 44mag is a better one for deer.

And yes the 44mag is very widely used for deer and has been for a longtime. Just because it was originally a pistol round doesnt mean its not a good deer cartridge.

243 i said was on par with 223 in terms of deer hunting sub par. If you like tracking wounded deer use a 243 or 223.

The op is doing nothing wrong by choosing a 44 rifle for pretty much any use from hunting to plinking to target shooting. The ruger carbines are superbly accurate and chambered in 44mag its a very hard hitting round.
A 30/30 170 gr bullet has a velocity of 2,200 fps and delivers over 1,800 ft lb of energy on the target. That is just a plain old federal soft point bullet.

You can find boutique ammo for the 44 mag that will deliver 1,400 ft lb of energy from a rifle. But hollow point bullets are not that great for hunting. Animal bones are much more dense than human bones, especially deer. There is no way the traditional flat nose soft point has the same ballistic coefficient as a round nose 30/30 bullet. There is no way a flat nose bullet with a velocity of 1,600 fps has the same range as a round nose bullet with a velocity of 2,200 fps. I am not saying a 44 mag won't kill a deer. But there a lot of better choices out there including a 12ga loaded with sabots.
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:49 AM   #14
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A 30/30 170 gr bullet has a velocity of 2,200 fps and delivers over 1,800 ft lb of energy on the target. That is just a plain old federal soft point bullet.

You can find boutique ammo for the 44 mag that will deliver 1,400 ft lb of energy from a rifle. But hollow point bullets are not that great for hunting. Animal bones are much more dense than human bones, especially deer. There is no way the traditional flat nose soft point has the same ballistic coefficient as a round nose 30/30 bullet. There is no way a flat nose bullet with a velocity of 1,600 fps has the same range as a round nose bullet with a velocity of 2,200 fps. I am not saying a 44 mag won't kill a deer. But there a lot of better choices out there including a 12ga loaded with sabots.
have you read up on the Hornady 44 Magnum LEVERevolution ammo?

this one is made for hunting with a 225 gr. FTX bullet. tested from a 20" barrel it's almost twice as fast adn almost twice the energy than the same one fired from a pistol.

http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-225-gr-FTX-LEVERevolution/

if you read the ballistics on that particular load, yes the 30-30 with a 170 gr. bullet is a bit faster and has a bit more energy, but not by much.
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Old 05-12-2014, 03:55 PM   #15
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A 30/30 170 gr bullet has a velocity of 2,200 fps and delivers over 1,800 ft lb of energy on the target. That is just a plain old federal soft point bullet.

You can find boutique ammo for the 44 mag that will deliver 1,400 ft lb of energy from a rifle. But hollow point bullets are not that great for hunting. Animal bones are much more dense than human bones, especially deer. There is no way the traditional flat nose soft point has the same ballistic coefficient as a round nose 30/30 bullet. There is no way a flat nose bullet with a velocity of 1,600 fps has the same range as a round nose bullet with a velocity of 2,200 fps. I am not saying a 44 mag won't kill a deer. But there a lot of better choices out there including a 12ga loaded with sabots.
J.D.,I think you'd argue with a fence post if you thought you were right about everything! LOL
I've hunted with a 44 magnum for many years,with a 24" Winchester 94AE,and also several different 44 magnum pistols. If a deer is 100 yards or less away,it won't take another step when hit with either.
I've shot many with 240 gr Hollow points,but prefer to use a Soft point or 300 gr Buffalo Bore Hard cast bullets with a gas check.
Hell,I've shot 2-3 deer with the 1873 Uberti 45 colt rifle,and it's a hell of a lot slower than the 44 magnum!

I could care less about velocities,the delivered energy is what kills the animal,and when they are hit with a 44 magnum,it's like hitting them with a sledge hammer.
Same as shooting something with my 458 SOCOM,it isn't fast,but it hit's like a truck!
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Old 05-12-2014, 04:13 PM   #16
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30-30 and 44 out of rifles deliver same foot pounds of energy. Except the 44 has a larger diameter and heavier bullet. This imparts more of its energy into the target.

Once you get past 100 yards the 30-30 is a bit better but not by much. People have used the cartridge for deer forever but its not what i consider a great one for deer. The 44mag is a better one for deer.

And yes the 44mag is very widely used for deer and has been for a longtime. Just because it was originally a pistol round doesnt mean its not a good deer cartridge.

243 i said was on par with 223 in terms of deer hunting sub par. If you like tracking wounded deer use a 243 or 223.

The op is doing nothing wrong by choosing a 44 rifle for pretty much any use from hunting to plinking to target shooting. The ruger carbines are superbly accurate and chambered in 44mag its a very hard hitting round.
Jon,

I agree with your opinion on most thing relating to firearms but the .243 is not a marginal deer cartridge. I have used a .243 for years on deer out to 350 yds and can't say I have ever had to track one. I use a 100 gr plain jane cor-lokt and generally blow threw both shoulders. Granted in NC our deer average 115 lbs but I have shot bucks up to 200 pounds in Northern Virginia. The .223 is a dubious deer round but from personal experience as a guide and life long hunter the .243 is as good of a white tail round as you can find .Sorry for the hijack.
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Old 05-12-2014, 11:50 PM   #17
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Hey Rogue: Funny you should mention that about the SB hawk. I also happen to have a 629 8 3/8 Bbl, the SBH is 7 1/2. Nowadays firing the 629 leaves me with some serious hand cramps (50rds), however, I have gotten used to letting the Ruger pronate through the course of the recoil, I actually grip it quite lightly, whereas the S&W you got to hang on to or get hammer bit. Long story short, I prefer the SBH, don't get me wrong a redhawk is a thing of beauty, the Super Red Hawk is a little too much for me these days. But Hell, i love all Rugers, I can't deny it.

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Old 05-14-2014, 06:20 AM   #18
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Wow, this has me wondering............my dad's '66 fingergroove has a receiver peep (top mount, not side mount) and big bead front.

But I dunno if it has a folding rear (think so). That might mean the peep set is aftermarket.

Trigger aint very good, but I can shoot around 3" groups at 75 yards with it (Norma 236gr factory ammo from the 80's). I can shoot other peep equipped rifles to much better, so think the rig itself is to blame for the less than tight grouping.

But inside of 75 yards it'll hammer deer, or pigs...............and the bullets exit.

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Old 05-14-2014, 06:25 AM   #19
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SBH or SRH?

Heck, my 10/22 is a '67 fingergroove, my dad's .44 a '66..............my revolver?
A '72

I have shot several SBH's, and Smith 629's...........love the Smiths more than the Rugers. But like a SBH more than a SRH, even though my dad's 9.5" SRH was a tack driver. I shoot mostly 180 and 200 grainers, the heaviest I run these days are 240 gr JHP or 255 gr cast.

Get low on the SBH grip, keeps the gun from moving, can thumb with the left and peel off several shots righty, with no gun slip. Pounds the hand but allows for good followups.

And putting extra holes in deer, esp movers, is extra fun

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Old 05-14-2014, 06:28 AM   #20
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"delivered energy" kills animals?
I thought it was tissue/organ/structural damage.
Kinda hard to know how much energy is "delivered" when bullets exit.
And then there's the absorption of energy, due to tissues being elastic (and different tissues having different elasticity).
I'm inclined to think along the lines of the old Layne Simpson .44 mag article from Handloader Magazine...........a .429 hole in and out leaks a fair amount of air or red.

Kills 'em dead, sometimes rather quickly.



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