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Old 01-30-2009, 01:20 AM   #11
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I could be amenable to an AK. To be honest I don't know enough about them; just out of curiousity what sort of drop off in accuracy am I likely to experience? Any suggested manufacturers? Is the WASR-10 noted in the above post the preferred model?..
The WASR-10 is NOT the preferred AK but it's probably the easiest to find at the best price. Just like every other rifle (gun), someone will always have a bigger, better, more accurate yada yada yada.... (Just ask Matt )

Here's a hint, at 100 yds and with iron sights I can put 28 of 30 rounds in center mass. I'm 62 and wear contacts. You got better eyes? Then you would more than likely drop all 30 inside the ring. You plan on shooting Zombies further out? Not me, that’s above my paygrade but I don’t think it would require a hardware upgrade. Besides that's why I keep JD around. Gotta love those long distant 'reach out and touch someone' guys but it's not me

Is the black gun worth the $? Sure. Would I like to have a Colt 6920? You bet. Could I have more fun or reliability with the Colt? NO FREAKIN WAY!!

Quick story, each time I go to the range with my Romey, there must be 10 guys there with the evil blacks. The last trip I shot next to a guy with one. On our target walk back we complemented each other’s accuracy. During the three hours I spent at the range, five people came up to me and ask me about my AK… Ooops, SUR-47. No one stopped by black rifle guy. I know that doesn’t mean sh1t but hey, a cheap thrill is better than no thrill at all!

Bottom line, are there better rifles out there? Of course, and if you have the cash, buy one of each! What's best for you? Sounds like something you will need to figure out. Will the SUR-47 fit your requirements, YOU BET!

Forget the "what if" Nobama BS and take the time to test different rifles before you jump in with both feet. Hell, jump on a plane and get down here and give my Romey a workout! I'll even pick you up at the Ft. Lauderdale airport!
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:10 AM   #12
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Thanks for all the responses, they've been quite helpful =)

I think I'll definitely take a pass on the WASR, found a couple disturbing reports of them supposedly failing catastrophically (e.g. exploding in people's faces...). Thanks for the offer of a test though canebreak. =) Any AK manufactures I should look into instead?

Matt G: the M1A looks as if it could be quite interesting and suit me well. I am a little concerned that since it's essentially a battle rifle (accepted terminology?) over-penetration might be an issue in home defense. I think I would have no issues shooting a thief, accidentally hitting a neighbor two doors down would probably weigh pretty heavily on me...am I overemphasizing that aspect too much?

I've seen a lot of praise for the Colt 6920; with that I run into wait lists, although I could probably pick one up used at some exorbitant premium...one issue though: after digging around on Colt's site it seems as if it's Law Enforcement/Military only. Can I even legally own one?

Looking at gunbroker.com it seems like for the price of a 6920 I could get one of the pricier, seemingly more modern gas piston rifles like the Sig 556 or Robarm XCR. Which way would you guys go on that? Looking at it, it seems like the XCR comes out on top, but then I'm clearly clueless, which is why I'm here.

Please, educate me. =)
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Old 01-30-2009, 11:50 AM   #13
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Just as a side thought, you may want to pick up a cheap 22 to learn on when you get you SUV or ATV (what are we calling it now?) rifle. The cheap ammo of a 22 will let you put A LOT more rounds down range and spend more time shooting. I'll admit I've only been shooting for a short time but its true what they say. Nothing beats range time for picking up skill.

Just my two cents but if your going to spend all that money what's another 150 bucks for a used 22 to play with?
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:03 PM   #14
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Allectus - The new modern gas piston systems are good, really good, but they are expensive and I don't personally think they are worth the extra cash at this time.

The original Eugene Stoner design was for a gas operated system. Because of the "millions" of "expert reporters" on the Internetz ( which is Cer-I-Us Bid-Ness ) and an overall common lack of knowledge about how to clean and maintain the damn thing, someone got the idea to combine the AR principles that they liked with the reliability of the AK/SKS platform.

Now, as for the problems concerning the kabooms with the WASR and other models. Yes, they do happen. But, they are usually because the weapons are not properly maintained and they haven't been properly tuned. They are usually battlefield pick ups like the contractor in Fallujah video where the entire top metal comes of the AK he is shooting on full auto.

I would be HIGHLY surprised if a correctly modified and maintained weapon like canebrake's would experience the same occurence, even under heavy sustained fire.

The thing is this, anything that was made cheaply overseas, also probably has a more stable, tighter tolerance, hardcore version made here in the states. If there is a market for the cheap stuff, there is also a market for someone to build a really good one. And one thing we still do better here than anywhere else in the world ( with VERY few exceptions ) is build very good firearms.

Now, if you want an AR, I think that is a great platform and I personally think a great choice. But you have to be prepared to take good care of it and make sure that you learn how to use it correctly to get the type of SHTF reliability out of it.

With the AK/SKS type of platforms, they are more forgiving and they are usually much cheaper to get into on the initial purpose.

But, most of that is mute until you actually fire a couple of them and see what you, personally, are comfortable with. After you decide what direction you truly want to go, the guys here will definitely be able to help you sort out the good, the bad and the completely stay away from models.

JD
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:32 PM   #15
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Matt G: the M1A looks as if it could be quite interesting and suit me well. I am a little concerned that since it's essentially a battle rifle (accepted terminology?) over-penetration might be an issue in home defense. I think I would have no issues shooting a thief, accidentally hitting a neighbor two doors down would probably weigh pretty heavily on me...am I overemphasizing that aspect too much
Over penetration has been a consistent complaint with the 5.56 NATO from both operators and conventional boots on the ground. Many have complained that the 7.62 NATO is a far superior round. This is why you see the resurgence of the M14 and related rifles. You can even see it in programs like the H&K 416/417 and FN ARs. The problem can bee seen in ammo development programs like 6.8 REM, among others.

7.62x39 and 5.45x39 are both better choices than 5.56 NATO. This is mostly due to their bullet construction though.

If you're looking for home defense, stick with your pistol or get a shotgun. If you want a zombie defense rifle, go big and don't look back.

I like the M14 platform on traditional wood furniture or USGI synthetic furniture, because it doesn't look "tactical", even with optics and a bipod added. This prevents the arousal of suspicion on the part of my neighbors or anyone that I happen across in the woods. It offers the benefits of most hunting rifles as well as most of the rifles that have been tagged "evil" by the media.

It comes chambered in the highly lethal and highly accurate 7.62 NATO round that is capable of kill shots out past 800m. It has readily available 20 round magazines that function well with the platform. Surplus ammo is relatively cheap and easy to find. Being semi-auto, it is capable of quick follow up shots and again, you've got a detachable 20 round magazine, so, god forbid you need to lay suppressive fire, you're able to do it. With modern upgrades, it's more reliable than the AR platform. With these upgrades, it exhibits near AK levels of reliability, but with none of the lowered accuracy issues that the AK displays.

It doesn't have a pistol grip. It isn't black. Optics and bipods make them look more like hunting rifles.
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Old 01-30-2009, 05:40 PM   #16
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Modern M14 based platforms:

US Army M14s in use with the 25th Infantry Division:



US Army M14, as delivered to the 101st Airborne Division:



Mk 14 MOD 0, as used by the US Navy SEALS and Swicks, as well as US Air Force EOD:



One of my 82nd Airborne brethren, using an M14 in a SAGE EBR chassis in Afghanistan:

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Old 01-30-2009, 05:44 PM   #17
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A couple FAST Company Marines using their DMR M14s:





This is the 2 ID configuration:





Which is how I'm ordering mine, minus the crappy GI bipod and unfortunately, minus the suppressor. I'm also downsizing the optics to a Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x32mm and getting an 18" barrel, instead of the 22" shown.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:06 PM   #18
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A couple FAST Company Marines using their DMR M14s:
Which is how I'm ordering mine, minus the crappy GI bipod and unfortunately, minus the suppressor. I'm also downsizing the optics to a Leupold VX-III 1.75-6x32mm and getting an 18" barrel, instead of the 22" shown.
Matt nice stuff! (Yea I know you are expecting the punch line but not this time! )

Really nice sh1t!!
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:28 PM   #19
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Matt nice stuff! (Yea I know you are expecting the punch line but not this time! )

Really nice sh1t!!
It should get the job done, as long as I can get it ordered before brother Obama and his henchmen decide that I'm a danger to myself with one of them.

That combination should allow me to put rounds on a beer can at 400 yards and take minute of bad guy shots out to 800 yards.
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:10 PM   #20
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Allectus,

Congrats on College and your decision to exercise your Second Amendment Rights.

With regard to what you should purchase, I recommend that you try some different firearms out and go through a course or two on home & personal defense as well as a basic firearms course before you make this decision. Every shooter has his/her own preferences and what works for me may not be right for you.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me at our Shooting Sports Center (856) 358-0734

Good Luck
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