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~kev~ 10-10-2008 02:24 PM

Remington 700 shooting problem
 
Perhaps someone here can give me some advice?

I have a Remington Model 700 mountain rifle chambered in 280 / 7mm express, the rifle is about 12 years old. Up until last year, the rifle shot great. I was able to make 3/4 - 1 inch groups at 100 yards. For hunting east Texas whitetail deer at 75 - 100 yards that kind of group is fine with me.

Last year the rifle started shooting strange. One round would hit almost 2 feet to the right, the next round would hit almost 2 feet high. It was if the rifle was shooting in a circle. Some of the advice I was told "your scope rings are loose, tighten them up" - so I made sure the scope rings were tight, which they were.

Then I went out and bought a new scope. Its only a $100 bushnell, but the rifle is still shooting about 2 feet off at 100 yards.

I do not know what else to try. So far I have shot 2 boxes of ammo trying to get the rifle sighted in, and it keeps hitting about 2 feet (24 inches) off. One shot hits usually to the right and then the next round hits straight up.

For 10 years this rifle has shot straight and narrow. During that time my rifle and I have taken about a dozen deer. Last year a round hit high and cut the deers spine, dropping it in its tracks. Instead taking the chance of wounding a deer, I have to get this problem fixed.

Until the problem is resolved, I will have to use a Marlin 336 in 30-30 - which is a fine rifle by its own standing.

Any suggestions?????

Dillinger 10-10-2008 02:50 PM

*Paging cpttango30* We have another Remington issue. :)

Okay, first you are taking some pretty extreme measures to start with. I understand the use of multiple types of ammo, that is cheap and easy. I guess the new scope purchase was because you thought it might be damaged? However...

Have you checked the action to stock mating? Are the action screws nice and tight? Do you have any type slop or play in there? Is the barrel floated, or is it right down in the stock where you couldn't slide a dollar bill under from the front of the stock to the action?

Pictures of the rifle and the action itself would help.

2 feet is A LOT of problem. Definitely something that now has me curious to see the throat and the crown at the end of the barrel. Have you had anyone bore scope the barrel for you? Generally that can be done free of charge at any gunshop. I know we do that for free, as do several others in our area.

While it might be embassing for you, I have to ask. Did you have any sort of slip, or fall, or perhaps have something exert some sort of pressure on the barrel itself?

I am curious, so I will deifnitely be following this thread.

JD

~kev~ 10-10-2008 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)
Okay, first you are taking some pretty extreme measures to start with. I understand the use of multiple types of ammo, that is cheap and easy.

The ammunition I am using is Remington Core-Lokt PSP in either 140 or 150 grain - not sure of the exact grain, I'am at work and my rifle ammunition is at home.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)
I guess the new scope purchase was because you thought it might be damaged? However...

Yes, the first scope was an el cheapo bushnell as well. After 10 years of use, I thought the scope may have gone bad. I have heard stories of the cross hairs coming loose or breaking - dont know if the stories are true or not. But for $100, at least now I have a spare scope.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)
Have you checked the action to stock mating? Are the action screws nice and tight? Do you have any type slop or play in there?

Action mating? Explain please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)
Is the barrel floated, or is it right down in the stock where you couldn't slide a dollar bill under from the front of the stock to the action?

This is one of my concerns, but I did not mention it in the first post. When the rifle was new, yes, the barrel was floated. Over the years, its as if the stock has warped and now one side is touching the barrel. Looking at the rifle from the top (looking down on the action), the left hand side of the stock is touching the barrel. I thought about getting a wood working rasp file and filing out the stock until it no longer touches the barrel, but thought I would ask advice first.

Which would be faster and more efficient, a new stock or working the stock with a wood file?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)

Pictures of the rifle and the action itself would help.

I can post pictures tonight.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)

2 feet is A LOT of problem. Definitely something that now has me curious to see the throat and the crown at the end of the barrel. Have you had anyone bore scope the barrel for you? Generally that can be done free of charge at any gunshop. I know we do that for free, as do several others in our area.

Negative, I have not had the rifle bore sighted, nor have I had any work done on the muzzle. I have heard of some people milling the end of the barrel to improve accuracy. This has not been done to my rifle.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dillinger (Post 44523)
While it might be embassing for you, I have to ask. Did you have any sort of slip, or fall, or perhaps have something exert some sort of pressure on the barrel itself?
I am curious, so I will deifnitely be following this thread.
JD

Negative, I do not remember any event that would have put out of the ordinary pressure on the barrel. Just the usual stuff, putting the rifle in the gun boot of the 4-wheeler, back and forth to the woods.........

stalkingbear 10-10-2008 09:54 PM

Without actually seeing the rifle,and hearing that it's scattering shots,I'd be willing to bet something's loose-either mounts/bedding screws/etc. The best thing would be to take it to a gunsmith.

Dillinger 10-10-2008 11:04 PM

Okay, in re-reading the posts, you said that when you first got the rifle, it was not in contact with the wood stock, but now on one side of the stock, it is partially touching, or is touching. That is a point of concern to me, but as stalkingbear has mentioned, without actually seeing it, and looking at it, it's difficult to tell without pictures at the very least.

Now, if the stock has soaked water, or moisture, and has swelled over the years, this can cause a problem, especially if it has swelled in some areas around the rifle action and then later teh swelling subsided a bit.

The rifle action, the part where the bolt, bullets ( rounds ) and trigger group go "generally" has two screws that go up through the bottom of the stock into the metal of the action. Look underneath the rifle and see if you see ( 2 ) flat blade screws ( most likely on the Remy's ) though they could have been replaced.

Check those screws and see if they are tight. Hand tight plus a little more. They don't need to be Gorilla Grip tight. If they are loose, I would be tempted to pull them all the way out and check the stock under the action and the barrel to see what the condition is.

One easy way to fix a warped stock, assuming you can be sure that the damage is done and it won't continue to warp, is:

1) Seal the stock so no more water will be sucked up and continue to warp. We have dried stocks in the oven on super low heat, sprayed them with a lacquer/wood sealant and then...

2) Bed the action to free float the barrel. This is the process of putting a permanent epoxy for the action to lay in, making a form fitting "bed" that will lift the action up about 1/4" out of the wood, giving the barrel all the clearance it needs.

However, that is jumping ahead. First I would check and see if the action screws are loose in any way. If they are, pull them and take a look at the stock.

if they are not, then you might want to have the barrel bore scoped to see what condition the barrel itself is in. With the deviation of 24 plus inches, I am betting something is more loose than having a burr on one of the lands or a bad crown.

Pictures would definitely help...

JD

~kev~ 10-11-2008 01:10 AM

I checked the screws under that action, and they were maybe a 1/2 a turn loose. They were not torqued down, nor where they real loose either. They were not loose enough that I could have turned them by hand.

Alrighty, here are the pictures. The first thing I tried was a business card, and you can see where it stopped at. Then I went to my wife and begged for a dollar.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...0018Medium.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...0019Medium.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...0027Medium.jpg

Dillinger 10-11-2008 01:18 AM

Well, first off, that rifle is in pretty good condition for being as old as it is. It would appear you take pretty good care of your stuff from first glance. :D

Have you tried a different brand of ammo all together? Something you haven't tried previously? It's a long shot, a real long shot, but maybe you have a really off batch, or one that is aged and not performing as the previous lot??

You action is definitely not free floated. If it were, you would be able to slide that dollar, and even that business card, all the way up to the front of the action, about an inch in front of your forward most scope mount.

The action screws don't sound like they were loose enough to cause your problem, but they also should have been tighter.

Again, 24" plus is A LOT of difference. I am tempted to say have the barrel bore scoped and see what that looks like.

I can't imagine you have shot the throat out of that thing, unless you make a routine of firing 1,000 grouping rounds before each hunt. :p

You are comfortable with your new scope and the mouting? Right? No chance you have loose scope mounts?

Given what I know from your posts, my advice hasn't changed. Bore scope the barrel and see what condition that thing is in, then maybe pull the action and barrel from the stock and see what kind of external pressures you are getting counter-acting the barrel harmonics you have become used to in the last 10 years of shooting...

JD

~kev~ 10-11-2008 04:23 AM

The only other kind of ammunition I have tried is Winchester. But that was before the problems.

I might bring the rifle to a gun smith and have him/her check the chamber for any damage and bore sight the rifle.

Yes, I am comfortable with the scope mounts, they are very tight.

Thank you for all of your help.

Dillinger 10-11-2008 05:15 PM

At this point, I highly doubt ammo is the problem, but I am just trying to eliminate all possible causes.

As stalkingbear indicated, being that far off target almost leads one to believe it's something loose, or something seriously wrong.

I am most curious to hear what you end up finding out though. I am betting it's something that can be fixed, but it might cost you a few bucks.

Personally? I am leaning towards a glass bed job would fix all the problems - but that is just a hunch I have playing out in my mind.

Best of luck and please keep us posted -

JD

cpttango30 10-12-2008 12:35 PM

Tango on the spot. Remington for some reason does not believe in free floating the barrel. So where your card and bill stop is right. There should be a small hump in that area of your stock.

Here is that I see.

1. Ammo is ok

2. New scope (Will go into this a little more)

3. Looks good and clean on the outside.

OK so we have tried different ammo with same result. You got a new scope on her. How much clearance in there between the barrel and scope bell when you make adjustments. If you are shooting at a range where your AO is turned so that your scope touches the barrel that will account for your 24" of mistake. Did you mount the scope or have a smith mount it. If your scope does indeed touch the barrel who ever mounted it may have torqued the tube while mounting it.

Your stock may have also warped over the years. I would get some kind of marking dye and remove the action from the stock and put the marking on the barrel and action where it would be in the stock then put it back together tighten the action screws down then remove the action and see where it is touching the stock where you are not wanting it to.

Cleaning: How clean is the inside? If your barrel gets cleaned twice a year then it may have some damage from that. How many rounds have you shot in its life. The barrel may just be worn out.

I would give it a real good cleaning. (DON'T use a brush on a drill) and try it again.


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