Remington 700 7mm Mag
Ok J.D. Some time ago you told me about Krieger barrels. Well after a year I have decided to go ahead and do the deed, and change out the stock and barrel on the 700. I have done some reading, and since I cannot afford a McMillian yet, lots of folks said to go with the Bell and Carlson Medalist vertical grip varmit stock. So now my question is, which contour should I go with on the Krieger barrel, and should I have it fluted? I am not with a department, and not in the Army any more, this is a hunting gun, and sometimes used for some backyard competitions between friends. I am just ready to make it better. I did read the next thread down, and some were not too hip on the 700, but I guess I got a good one. I can group pretty well out to 600 yards, and I am no sniper. Thanks for the help.
I am not JDou have picked one of the top names in aftermarket barrels on the market. The stock is a great choice as a #2 to McMillian. As for your barrel I would go with a factory Remington Varmint contour. That way you will have little if any work to preform on fitting the stock to the barrel.
Me personally I am so against flutting a barrel. Your going to take a good barrel and ruin it by having flutes cut into it. If you are going to do that then send it off and have it cryoed to relieve the stress. Once a barrel is finished from kreiger it should be stress free.
More later got to get to work.
true - Looks like you have your mind made up. The Bell & Carlson is a good stock, I don't think you will be disappointed with it.
As for the barrel, and what you want to do with it, we need to determine what your goals for it are:
A hunting rifle, in my realm, is a light weight, pack in rifle. Has a smaller diameter, and shorter in length, barrel profile. Possibly fluted to relieve even more weight. It's not designed for Minute of Angle because Minute of Deer is all you really need.
Now, a rifle that you are going shoot against the guys and occassionally hunt with - I would recommend something like a Standard or Medium Sporter and I would only flute it if weight is a problem.
If you want a tack driver, and aren't concerned with weight. I would go with the full 26" Standard or Heavy Target model. Glass bed the action in the new stock and get a good muzzle break installed to tame some of that recoil.
There is nothing wrong with fluting if it's done properly. If you go too deep, all at once, and don't relieve the barrel all the way around, then you are inducing stresses on the barrel. Several minor passes along the outside can shave a pound, or more, off a full length barrel and get the center of gravity back towards the shooter, which is a huge plus in a hunting stick.
But, even the most lightweight Krieger barrel is going to shoot better than the Remy factory barrel, so as long as you have someone competent doing the chamber work, the bedding and remounting your scope, you are going to see an improvement in your accuracy. It's just a matter of what kind of degree you want to go to.
I put the 26" Heavy Target on my custom 7mm mag and it's a weighty piece - but I don't ever intend on hunting game with it. :D
Who's going to do the work for you??
JD, I havnt gotten that far yet, as to who is going to do the work. The stock will take 6-8 weeks to get in, and I have no idea how long the barrel will take. Not to mention i am a poor unemployed soldier going to school full time, so it will take another month or two before I can even order the barrel.
What would you charge to do something like this if I already have all of the parts? Since I am here in Houston, I am blessed to have a very good gunsmith here in town(Briely), but they are a little on the expensive side. Any suggestions? To be honest I was thinking about either the standard target barrel, or the Rem varmit countour(both by Krieger), and Krieger offers fluting, so I guess they would do it correctly, and check it before it left them, right?
Also, I was sort of under the impression that since this stock comes with a full alum. bed block, i would not have to glass bed it, am I wrong on this?
I think a straight chamber cut is $300 or $350 in the shop if you provide everything.
If Brett does the build, he is going to true up the action face, clean up your bolt face, lap the locking lugs and basically blue print the whole action.
That would be $600 if I remember correctly.
You can order a fully cut chamber from Krieger, and I think it's only a couple of hundred extra dollars. Their backlog is out past 4 months though, so get your order in ahead of time. They don't charge you until they ship, but they do require a deposit.
If you want fluting, yes, Krieger would know how to correctly flute their barrels.
I personally don't flute any of my barrels, because I never intend on hiking deep into the outback in search of something to shoot at. :D
As for the bedding block, the answer is yes and no. Basically you are bolting steel ( receiver ) to aluminum ( bedding block ), and the Remington Receiver is a round bottom action. Since they didn't come of the assembly line together, you don't know how the fit is going to be between the two when mated up. Could be perfect, could be three high points making contact. You just don't know until it's done and in your hands.
Now, extrapolate that out past a few hundred magnum rounds down range and you can see where this is going.
Basically what you are wanting to do is Skim Bedding. Where it's not a real, traditional glass bedding, but it helps keep that round bottom action more in place and gives it less room to wiggle free or cause wear. Skim Bedding can even be done with JB Weld or something along those lines, but it's not the best overall solution.
Personally, for real tack driving accuracy, I would opt for a quality skim bedding ( possibly even a bit thicker ) to be done to mate the action correctly to the bedding block and give it that much more of a secure foothold..... But, that's just me.
Quality barrel makers, like Krieger, or my barrel maker Broughton, use heat stress relief after each and every machining operation or process. In other words after the barrel is deep hole drilled and then reamed, the barrel is heat stress relieved, and that procedure is followed throughout the entire process of manufacturing the barrel. Every time material is machined (or cold formed as is the case with button rifling) from the barrel blank, drilling and reaming, pulling a button (if button rifled), contouring, and fluting - the barrel is heat stress relieved before the next operation is undertaken. This virtually eliminates bore migration, distortion, and stress due to the removal of material from around the bore.
Flutes are cut to full depth in one pass per flute with a follow rest centered directly behind the work and the cutting tool to prevent distortion of the barrel and prevent variations in the depth of the cut. Fluting a barrel, if done properly (and not all barrel makers do it properly) has no ill effects on the ultimate accuracy of the barrel.
The better quality barrel makers also cryo the barrel stock (ideally as a first step in the manufacture of a barrel). This reduces the amount of scrap or rejected barrels during the barrel making process, and increases the life span of the finished bore as barrel steel elicits an increase of abrasion resistance of approximately 528% over non-cryoed barrel steel. There is actually an exchange of atoms at the sub-atomic level when material is subjected to cryogenics. What this means is that the material will be of uniform molecular structure throughout it's entire length. Tool flex and performance will be consistent throughout the entire machining process engaged in, or in plain language, the machinist will actually be able to hold tolerances of 0.0001" or 0.0002"
Top quality barrel makers also hand lap the bore as the final process in the manufacture. Our bores are hand lapped by Broughton to a consistent taper of approximately 0.0003" from the breach to the muzzle, and are "tight" at the muzzle end.
Interesting fact! I just got off of the phone with Remington, and they told me I could not change the barrel on my 700. I told him I thought he must be mistaken, but he started spouting something about messing up the action when it has to be heated to get the barrel off. So I asked if I could just buy and action, and he said no. Then I asked if they made a 7mm Mag with a target or varmit style barrel, and he said no. So basicly he told me I could not have what I want. What a bummer, and I hope to prove him wrong.
I have never seen a barrel so tight that it required heat to be removed from the action on a factory stick. There are several times where I have been able to unthread it with just an action vise and my bare hands.
Yes truevil, you can build whatever you want once you purchase the action ( even if you have to purchase a whole gun to do it ). Lots of guys used to sell just rifle actions at normal guns shows - but the market has made that come to a halt with the increased demand over the past year.
Call that guy back and ask him why there are so many aftermarket parts for their weapon platform if no one is allowed to modify them. :D
The guy you talked to at Remington must be :#1-either a moron,#2-attempting to keep amateurs from destroying rifles,or #3-talking about the model 710/770. I wish I had 100$-or even 1$ for every Remington model 700 that's been rebarreled.
I'm using a Krieger #9 heavy target barrel fluted. The fluting mostly aids in cooling and most of the 1000 yard target shooters have barrels made that are fluted that I see and talk to. The barrel is 28" long (not including muzzel break length) and has 1:11 rifleing. .300 Win Mag using 210 gr Berger match target boat tail bullets.
I'm estimating that the finished target rifle I'm having built will weigh about 11 to 12 lbs. Not too bad IMO for this type of rifle. Same range of weight as my M-14/M1A
I got the same shat from a Remington factory guy. I think they say not to change factory barrels because of possible liability issues they might face if they openly promote doing this.
When you clould get Remington factory recievers they were priced more than buying the whole rifle.
You might also consider Surgeon Rifles or Pierce Engineering machined billet recievers which come with complete tacticle bolt assemblies.
Krieger is going to R&R the barrel and blueprint the reciever and bolt of my rifle. Also they are putting in a quicker uptake fireing pin,oversize recoil lug, my muzzel break, and parkerize.
After shooting several rifles with different stocks I decided on the somewhat pricey McMillan A-5 stock with adjustable stack plates, 1" Decel pad, and intergral cheek piece.
When I get the rifle back from Krieger I'll be sending it to Mcmillan for fitting, bedding, and final assembly with all my parts, (Jewell trigger and Badger Ordance bottom metal with detachable magazine)
I had a local gunsmith that was going to do this but he declined due to the fact that he is a Remington factory warranty center and is swamped with warranty work.
When you order barrel and services from Krieger they require a minimum $200.00 deposit. At present they are 14 weeks out to make barrel at which time they notify you that they need your rifle, and then about 2 months to complete work. They dont want the stock, trigger, or bottom metal to do their work. When you ship make sure to insure the package and buy a inexpensive plastic type gun case to ship in.(also put guncase you purchase in proper size shipping box as well) You will find that the barrel by itself isnt that much, however, having the barrel fluted, fitted, parkerized, threadded for and muzzle break placed, and reciever and bolt "blueprinted" adds up.
Order your stock at the time your barrel is done as they dont, at this time, have the lead time most barrel makers have. You might also arrange for the rifle from the barrel company to be directly shipped to the stock company if you intend to have them fit and bed your rifle.
I've been shooting my Remmy 700 in bone stock configuration for a couple of months now and it is fairly accurate as is except for the "cold shot" and after several rounds when the thin factory barrel heats up. When the light weight factory barrel heats up accuracy goes out the window.
Also if your going to shoot out to 1000 yards make sure to get your scope mount with a + 20 moa cant.
Well thats my 2 cents worth. I'll be keeping an eye out for your posts on the progress and completion of your long range target rifle.
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