Out of the Box Accuracy - Page 4
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:13 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dteed4094 View Post
I'm not disputing your 2 and 4 meter practice but can you tell me your reasoning if your relatively adept at 7 yards why you would need to practice at shorter ranges? Just curious. I am new at carring SD and have a need to know more than I do at this point.
Respectively.

Being good at a range setting at 7 yards, in perfect conditions, without any adrenaline coursing through your veins, without any pressure of your life, or those you love, ON THE LINE?!?!

Ninja Please!

ANYONE that doesn't practice with their chosen defense weapon at distances from point blank out to 10 or 12 yards is a fool. Bottom line. Period.

As a civilian. Me, personally. Someone who has not experienced adrenaline and combat stress, you expect target shooting in a range environment to compensate a real life combat encounter in a self defense situation??

I can assure you your target groups will be GREATLY missed in an adrenaline environment.

I went to Thunder Ranch when I first started making some money. Thought I was hot sh*t. Thought I could more than hold my own against "average" shooters.

I went to Thunder Ranch with my Sig, that I carried for years and shot at least twice a month. And I was good, all the way out to 50 feet, under range conditions.

I wasted $1800 and while I learned a lot, I learned that I didn't know jack about stress shooting.

A few years ago I was fortunate enough to be one of the last people through Valhalla with Rob Pincus and his Combat Focus class. I had my Nighthawk GRP. A weapon that I loved, carassed, dry fired and handled as much as possible.

When I hit Valhalla, with my chosen weapon of choice, I rocked it and I hit every target they threw at me, while keeping my principal safe.

If you don't know your weapon, inside and out, and know what it can do with it, you aren't ready for a full, real life encounter.

Sorry. But that is the truth. Maybe Cane has a different view, but that is what I have experienced.

JD
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Old 04-03-2011, 09:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dteed4094 View Post
I'm not disputing your 2 and 4 meter practice but can you tell me your reasoning if your relatively adept at 7 yards why you would need to practice at shorter ranges? Just curious. I am new at carring SD and have a need to know more than I do at this point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
Respectively.

Being good at a range setting at 7 yards, in perfect conditions, without any adrenaline coursing through your veins, without any pressure of your life, or those you love, ON THE LINE?!?!

Ninja Please!

ANYONE that doesn't practice with their chosen defense weapon at distances from point blank out to 10 or 12 yards is a fool. Bottom line. Period.

As a civilian. Me, personally. Someone who has not experienced adrenaline and combat stress, you expect target shooting in a range environment to compensate a real life combat encounter in a self defense situation??

I can assure you your target groups will be GREATLY missed in an adrenaline environment.

I went to Thunder Ranch when I first started making some money. Thought I was hot sh*t. Thought I could more than hold my own against "average" shooters.

I went to Thunder Ranch with my Sig, that I carried for years and shot at least twice a month. And I was good, all the way out to 50 feet, under range conditions.

I wasted $1800 and while I learned a lot, I learned that I didn't know jack about stress shooting.

A few years ago I was fortunate enough to be one of the last people through Valhalla with Rob Pincus and his Combat Focus class. I had my Nighthawk GRP. A weapon that I loved, carassed, dry fired and handled as much as possible.

When I hit Valhalla, with my chosen weapon of choice, I rocked it and I hit every target they threw at me, while keeping my principal safe.

If you don't know your weapon, inside and out, and know what it can do with it, you aren't ready for a full, real life encounter.

Sorry. But that is the truth. Maybe Cane has a different view, but that is what I have experienced.

JD
You nailed it JD!

dteed, I find it strange, albeit entertaining, that you choose to comment on my signature statement about personal defense training; “Be good at 2 meters and 4 meters. Laugh at that and you will die in your first PD action. – cane”, in a thread about long gun accuracy.

Ah but I digress, let me explain. My statement has more to do with arrogance than accuracy.

The shooter today has to decide on what type of practice in which he/she will partake. The two choices are competition shooting or fight shooting. The mindset of the two could not be further apart with respect to practice philosophy.

Competition shooting follows a strict set of rules.

There are no rules in fight shooting. There is no such thing as a “fair fight”!

I’m an extremely logical thinker, and a pragmatist. I know from empirical data that 90% of the time a PD experience will be at close quarters, very close quarters. Smelling your adversary’s bad breath close.

You will likely be fending off a knife or gun attack with your weak side arm while blowing the dirtbag’s heart out with your gun just inches from your holster. No sight/aim shooting. No proper stance, good grip and practiced balance. It will be over in a single heart beat and if you have spent your entire practice leading up to this encounter focused on the aforementioned modality it will be your last heartbeat!

Is my signature statement loaded with drama? You bet your azz it is! It got your attention but I just wish it had forced you to think rather than challenge its validity.
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Old 04-03-2011, 12:30 PM   #33
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Took my remington 700 xcr compact tactical out yesterday for some range time. Haven't shot it since december. Only thing I've done to it since I got it is put a scope and sling on it. 168grn bthp at 2800fps 200yds i was getting some 5 shot strings around 1inch. I didn't bother letting the barrel cool since the point of the day was how does it perform when heated up and dirty.

I'm very happy with the results. It didn't explode when I closed the bolt not even once. Could it be msnbc actually lied?? I'm sure it will blow up soon. I know msnbc doesnt make anything up ever.

Shot my ar15 using my old colt 4x scope couldn't get it on paper. Ill try again another day.

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Old 09-25-2011, 11:41 PM   #34
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Cane, thanks for posting. That was a great article. Interestingly, I was having some troubles with my Remington and was thinking of replacing it with either a TC Venture or Tikka T3.

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Old 09-26-2011, 04:41 PM   #35
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Good information for someone considering a rifle!!

I do want to point out that Accuracy is indeed whether or not the bullet goes where you want it to. Generally speaking, accuracy is is how close to the desired result one comes.

Precision, on the other hand, is how consistently a result is achieved. In other words, precision is how small the groups are.

So, a rifle can be both Accurate and Precise. That is, the bullets hit where you want, but inconsistently.

A rifle can be Inaccurate but still Precise. That is, it will shoot a 1MOA group but 5MOA off point of aim. It is precise in its consistency, but inaccurate in that the desired goal of hitting the target is not met.

Finally, a rifle can be Accurate (to some degree), but imprecise. That is, it might shoot 6MOA groups, but the groups will always be centered exactly around the point of aim. This is probably more applicable to AK or CQB-type rifles in that you know you won't be able to make 200yd head shots, but you know that lining the sights up on the center of the target will get you a hit. Again, alternatively, a rifle that can shoot 2" groups at 200 yards, but every other day seems to be off one foot in any direction as far as POI goes, is precise, but inaccurate.


So, precision (small groups) is technically the goal, as accuracy is then simply a matter of adjusting the sights to line up with POI.

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