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-   -   Mosin Nagant (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/mosin-nagant-65490/)

tcrone 05-31-2012 03:26 AM

Mosin Nagant
 
Hey guys I recently purchased a 91/30 Mosin Nagant and you obviously get what you pay for with jamming, sticky bolt etc. but I also noticed that at 100 yrds the rifle seems "inaccurate" and by that I mean the majority of the shots miss their target. I'm fairly new to firearms yet am not a terrible shot (not that you have to be amazing at 100 yrds) and was wondering how to go about adjusting/possibly realigning my sights. Any suggestions?

vincent 05-31-2012 03:41 AM

The front sight is movable, you can use a punch to drift it over one way or the other, the rear sight is what it is. IIRC, they are sighted to shoot high (6,8, inches I think) at 100 yds.

Bulk ammo is not as accurate as new factory loads...still more accurate than I am...

Check the crown of the muzzle, has it been counterbored? How does the rifling look?

Get the cosmoline cleaned out real good, that can cause problems too.

When you get a minute, stop by the intro thread and say hey...

Welcome to FTF! :D

Rick1967 05-31-2012 04:03 AM

The sticking bolt will be taken care of by using good brass ammo. The surplus stuff sticks in mine too. Buy the good stuff, totally different animal. I had to adjust my front sight. I was hitting several feet to the right at 100 yards. It is very accurate now. This may sound stupid. But I have heard several times and also seen a video. They actually shoot better groups with the bayonet attached. I have not tried it myself yet.

vincent 05-31-2012 04:06 AM

+1 on the bayonet Rick..it's got something to do with barrel harmonics...I'll just lie and say I understand it...;)

I've tried it on and off, can't say I noticed much of a difference but then again, I'm not that smart...:)

Arizeus 05-31-2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrone (Post 819906)
Hey guys I recently purchased a 91/30 Mosin Nagant and you obviously get what you pay for with jamming, sticky bolt etc. but I also noticed that at 100 yrds the rifle seems "inaccurate" and by that I mean the majority of the shots miss their target. I'm fairly new to firearms yet am not a terrible shot (not that you have to be amazing at 100 yrds) and was wondering how to go about adjusting/possibly realigning my sights. Any suggestions?

to me they shoot low i had a pop can on a stick the size of an arrow rod and hit it the first shot..... not the can the stick and the people at the range was like WOW your a good shot kid

7X57Mauser 05-31-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vincent
+1 on the bayonet Rick..it's got something to do with barrel harmonics...I'll just lie and say I understand it...;)

I've tried it on and off, can't say I noticed much of a difference but then again, I'm not that smart...:)

The M44 was designed to be fired with the bayonet extended. The POI of mine was brought into alignment with poa after extending the bayonet.

therewolf 05-31-2012 05:28 PM

You've got to, got to, got to clean the chamber

thoroughly.

With the gun unloaded, pull the bolt back.

While holding the bolt back,pull the trigger,

and the bolt will be released into the wild.

Then you can use a 20gauge mop, and other

accessories, to clean the chamber from the back.(breech)


Send a patch with your favorite solvent first. Keep at it.

Use de-greaser with the mop. Plenty of elbow-grease.

Then do it all again. Oil it when done. (I like ATF for this.)

Better ammo is much more accurate.

SSGN_Doc 05-31-2012 09:09 PM

There are a lot of things that can cause a wide difference in accuracy in these rifles. Being surplus rifles that used corrosive ammo, and of a model that saw lots of action the condition of the bore is pretty critical. Also, many war time guns were produce a bit rougher than pre-war ans post war examples. I have two Izshevsk 91/30s, one was made in 1936 and the machining and bore are pretty nice compared to my 1943 that has a round receiver that looks like it was hand finished with a coarse handfile.

Tne bolt on the 1936 is also smoother, but as someone already stated, you really need to clean these rifles well before you shoot them. The grease they used to pack them for long term storage has kerosene, bees wax, and grease mixed in it. The wax is hard to disolve and get out of the action without a concentrated effort. If any remains in teh chamber or the lug races it will make your bolt more sticky.

After condition, you get into the fact that some bores are tighter and more true than others. My 1936 bore mics at .311 and the 1943 mics at .312.

Then you get into ammo variances. I've tried surplus Czech ammo, Hungarian ammo, Russian ammo, Romanian, and then new production ammo from Tula, Wolf, and Silver Bear, and Winchester (which is actually made in Czech Republic). The Silver Bear loads was one of the more accurate loads, and measuring bullet diameter it has a .312 diameter bullet. The next most accurate was Hungarian Heavy Ball ammo that had a diameter larger than .311, but not quite .312.

So try different ammo brands, bullet weights etc. to see what works best in your rifle.

Next there are things you can do to help make the rifle shoot better. Action bedding, when done by the Russians and the Finns, was done using metal shims under the action and under the trigger guard as well as sometimes behind the recoil lug of the action to distribute weight and tension of the action more evenly and more consistently. Next you can check your barrel channel for tight spots or pressure points on the barrel. It's a long channel and having areas that touch one side of the barrel in one place and touch the other side of the barrel in other places can cause poor consistency in barrel harmonics as the barrel heats up. To identify high spopts you remove the handguard and slide a dollar bill under the barrel and run it from one end of the barrel channel to the other end, Take a pencil and mark areas that the dollar bill snags on. You can then take a deep well socket out of your socket wrench set that fits the channel and put some sand paper on it to remove any high spots you may find. This will effectively float your barrel. Many Mosin Nagant's do not shoot their best with a fully floated barrel however. But this gives you a place to start. Then you can take some thin cork gasket from and auto parts store and put it under teh last two inches of the barrel channel and see if that doesn't tighten groups a bit. This more consistent upward pressure is sometimes what a Mosin needs to get more acuracy out of it.

My 1943 went from 5-6 inch groups at 100 yds to 2-3 inch groups by bedding the action and eliminating some of the interference from the barrel channel and adding a cork pad. The biggest effect still was using the bullets with the larger diameter bullets though. For a $100 rifle and cheap ammo with close to .30-06 performance, and a little bit of experimenting, it is a pretty capable rifle. Also none of the work that I did really altered the gun in any visible or permanently damaging way.

Te Rusians did indeed sight rifles in with bayonets attatched and it is pretty common to see rifles shoot around a foot off of point of aim without a bayonet attached. If you don't plan to shoot with the bayonet atatched (And I don't know too many people who would) then just adjust the front sight by pushing it in the direction of where the bullets are impacting teh target reative to your point of aim.

therewolf 06-01-2012 03:32 PM

The Russian army was moving quickly, over battered terrain during the war,

and many rifles probably did not get regular cleanings. Shooting corrosive

ammo, and being exposed to the elements is a recipe for pitted,

corroded barrels. Some look as if there's no rifling left at all, or,

if it's there, it's packed under a layer of crud.

ATF has detergents which may help break down the dirt, without

damaging the barrel, in between cleanings, in order to help restore

your rifling's effectiveness.


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