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Old 10-27-2012, 09:29 PM   #21
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I got usable results right off the bat with 180 gr Winchester ammo. I didn't like the Russian Hollow point ammo that came along with the AK's and SKS's I sure wasn't going to buy ammo with 40 years less refinement. 203 gr Brown Bear SP ammo appears to be the choice for hunting unless you reload. Prvi Partisan would be the best but all they want to sell is FMJ ammo. Prvi Partisan must have hired management from Colt. I don't understand people who want to shoot MILSURP ammo. Every time I head out shooting I spend $40 on gas, targets and eats. Why not spend a little more to get quality ammo to enjoy the shooting experience?

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Old 10-27-2012, 10:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Crow View Post
I got usable results right off the bat with 180 gr Winchester ammo. I didn't like the Russian Hollow point ammo that came along with the AK's and SKS's I sure wasn't going to buy ammo with 40 years less refinement. 203 gr Brown Bear SP ammo appears to be the choice for hunting unless you reload. Prvi Partisan would be the best but all they want to sell is FMJ ammo. Prvi Partisan must have hired management from Colt. I don't understand people who want to shoot MILSURP ammo. Every time I head out shooting I spend $40 on gas, targets and eats. Why not spend a little more to get quality ammo to enjoy the shooting experience?
The Winchester brass case is rebranded Sellor& Bellot just for everyone's info if your gun likes it and you have a hard time finding a steady supply.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:14 AM   #23
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SSGN_Doc I have found that I was shooting bullets that have the diameter of .308, and that this may be causing the reloads problems with grouping. The Soviet bullets that I have pulled and mic'd are .311. Given the age of the barrel and resulting ware, maybe my bullets are too small. You mentioned bullets with diameter of .312 giving better results. I ordered some .312 bullets that are 150gr, (intended for the Brit 303,)to reload and would like to know how I should proceed. I use Varget. Do I need to start out with loads less than those listed as the lowest for starting, is the 10000/inch increase in size enough to cause problems with increasing pressure ?

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Old 10-28-2012, 04:07 PM   #24
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Yes, just like starting any new load. Go to the manual and use either the starting loads or cut a load by 10 percent to start. The Russian bores are supposed to be .311 when new but some were tighter at .309 or .310. Then some were looser or have worn or had some corrosion and the .311-.312 diameter bullets will sometimes give better performance.

Some if the worst performing ammo in my 1943 rifle was TulAmmo and the bullets mic'd at .309. I don't handload for 54r yet so, shopping different rounds has been the closest equivalent so far. I think you will start gettinguch better results with the larger bullets. The issue with Russian bores and reloading is that when the Russians measured the bore thee assured the diameter of the lands while we measure the diameter of the groves. That's why their 7.62 is different than our 7.62.

Also interestingly enough that you use bullets for a British Enfield in a Mosin since the Czar was related to the English royals at the time both rifles were being developed.

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Old 10-28-2012, 10:22 PM   #25
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NM2, slug the bore with a lead ball and find out what the bore size in your rifle is? These rifles had a nominal bore of 7.7 MM {.311}. An error in bullets of going to a .312 and a possible tight bore can run some very high CUPs. I doubt the cousins of the Romanoff family in England really cared about a .001+ or - a hell of a lot.

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Old 10-29-2012, 07:45 PM   #26
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-Nitestalker I swaged a lead pistol ball through a hole in my bench block, and then pushed the greased ball down the similarly greased bore and the just a flea's eyelash past .312. I think that I will proceed with caution as advised by SSGN_Doc. My Soviet heavy ball came in today from J&G. I was planning to pull the bullets on some and see if they group any different with new, weighed charges, than those I leave the way they came.

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Old 10-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #27
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Everyone is talking about Russian/Soviet Mosin-Nagant rifles. The Finns took these rifles, made improvements from the mass produced models and made some damn fine rifles that will hold their own, in accuracy, with any WWII bolt action rifle. The M-39 is a great rifle, by any standard. A M-27 or 28/30 is not far behind. There are plenty of 91/30s that are very accurate, some that were never accurate, some that were accurate, and are now shot-out. When you make 20 million of the damn things, some will be very accurate just by the laws of averages.

The bulk of the refurb, war veteran, rifles were never meant to be long range tack drivers, but were intended to be rifles that would fire an accurate shot, every time, in conditions that would disable other rifles. Shooting minute of German at 200 yards was plenty good, and they did very well at that.

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Old 10-30-2012, 12:59 AM   #28
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Chainfire, do you remember when you could buy the Sako H.B. Nagants? Those were beautiful rifles by any standard.

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Old 10-30-2012, 03:31 AM   #29
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Hello,

I apologize in advance for the screw heads; they were taken apart literally hundreds of times. I've since replaced them and found a proper bit for my torque wrench that will not cause damage to the new ones!





Front view of the prototype that started my business...


... and the rear.

The action is shimmed and the barrel corked:



I also made some cool things like a two-stage Finn M39-style trigger. Instead of pins, it has bearings

Not for sale!!!





You can barely see a couple bearings under the sear.

I'm not going to risk selling it though. Liability. Dangit.

This rifle is capable of this (or rather, I'm capable of doing this, with my 20/55 sight; I'm sure the rifle's much better):



I had to work for that group, but as long as I have a target I can see, I can do about that. I take coyotes at 200 yards. That's about as far as I can see, uncorrected.

I know what these rifles can do and I love to see folks wring them out. Heck, a Finnish M39 had to have at least a 1.3MOA capability to be accepted into service!

(cont'd)
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:39 AM   #30
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I don't mind sharing the trigger design. The trigger cannot be patented because it's too close to the Finnish trigger and, at any rate, it's now in the public domain!

A good trigger is essential to good shooting, as you know. The Russians operated on the principle that a trigger such as they had would serve instinctive shooting better, and they believed in instinctive shooting while we believed (and still believe) in precise, deliberate shooting.

Here is a trigger I did while taking time to record the manufacture. Please bear in mind that this is during manufacture and it does not yet have grease or bluing on it.









I may manufacture these one day if I can find an insurance provider that doesn't ask crack-smoking prices to insure the product; meantime I have no problems with folks making them for themselves. I'd advise against making them for others just because of liability.

These cannot be patented as a very similar product, the Finnish M39's trigger (http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM39.htm), has been around since at least 1939!

One company makes an arguably inferior trigger utilizing a ball bearing. It is single-stage and feels much like a S&W revolver's trigger pull. I believe but cannot prove that their use of the ball bearing is their way of modifying the design enough to patent it.

Anyway, even if this were patentable – a doubtful prospect as I said – I'm throwing the design into the public domain so that it cannot be patented due to a preexisting specimen.

This is the same reason the Ruger LCP is so similar (the same, even!) to the Kel-Tec design: Kel-Tec never patented those lil' pistols and Ruger picked it up.

I want the best manufacturers to make products I buy, not folks who think up the idea then farm it out to China to be made cheaply. There are too many awesome designs out there that are poorly executed, but nobody else can pick these up for fear of patent infringement.

If I get the time and the insurance to make these, I will. If not, somebody with a drill press and a few other tools along with a bit of skill is more than welcome to make them. My feelings won't be hurt.

As I said, this is a Finnish idea that I just improved on a bit.

Regards,

Josh

P.S. Please excuse any watermarks in the pictures above. I do not mind if the pictures are passed around at all! I just get a bit antsy when I see someone take credit for the pictures or design... happened once only, but once bitten, twice shy, right?
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Last edited by Joshua M. Smith; 10-30-2012 at 03:44 AM.
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