Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > Long Guns > General Rifle Discussion > Mosin accuracy , reducing group size old school

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-25-2012, 11:54 PM   #11
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
chloeshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Great North Woods
Posts: 2,205
Liked 1704 Times on 889 Posts
Likes Given: 341

Default

What do you expect out of a sub-$200 rifle? The Soviets were never known for their quality, my man. Plus snipers would go often hours between shots. I think your expectations aren't realistic for this gun......

__________________
leave the cannoli - take the gun
chloeshooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 12:17 AM   #12
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HM2Grunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 467
Liked 186 Times on 120 Posts
Likes Given: 288

Default

nitestalker Your must live out in God's country. Unfortunately around here our longest range is determined by distance to the next grain silo or hog lot, and we have farmers who will shoot back. Also unfortunate is the fact that we have a lot of knuckleheads who love the black rifle or the AK with gun training learned on TV, and are more interested in letting rounds go, than keeping them within the range. We have currently have a situation where a very nice range is being shaken up, and may be closed because an errant round hit a farm worker. Too bad too. We need to keep those neighbors on our side, and away from the anti's.

__________________

GOA,NRA
Old Bolt Actions,
One round at a time.

"This is my Mosin,
There are many like it,
And three or so are mine."

HM2Grunt is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 12:35 AM   #13
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HM2Grunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 467
Liked 186 Times on 120 Posts
Likes Given: 288

Default

chloeshooter My expectations may be too high, but right now I am trying to find out how far they are from the reality, oh, and did I say, I like to shoot, and most anything that is still made out of steel and wood, and from what I can see, a lot of them are under $200. If I find out the performance of my Mosin is not good, I will still like to hang it on the wall and wonder who the soviet grunt who last held it was, and what his situation was at the time. And, by the way, that $200 price is only inflation. The guns haven't changed. In 1972 I bought a 1903 Springfield for $150, mint. and it shot really good too, and .30-06 ammo was cheaper. Thought I had to have it because that is what we lugged in Boot camp. Wish I still had it. Enough memory lane.

__________________

GOA,NRA
Old Bolt Actions,
One round at a time.

"This is my Mosin,
There are many like it,
And three or so are mine."

HM2Grunt is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 01:50 AM   #14
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
The_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 564
Liked 14 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
That said, 2 shots on a paper at any ranges proves nothing.
That is 3 shots, and yes it does; especially, when group after group consistently prints sub-moa.

Many firearm manufacturers provide a 3 shot group to with each rifle to "prove" they are of quality workmanship.

Indeed, a 3 shot group speaks volumes!


Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
If the shooter can provide 10 strings of 5 shot groups we would know how the Pattern 17 Rifle shoots?
I provide every shot taken.... sift through the videos... to save time, here are the last 3 shots taken with the Eddystone.

I'm not wasting 50 shots, when 3 tells me what I need to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
I have no idea what the post refered to concerning hormonics and a military barrel laden with hand guards bayo lugs and other hardware. It is hard to make a Dump truck into an Indy car.
So barrel harmonics are part of the physical world with the Eddystone...
...but those same physics are not present with the Mosin?

Many will extend the bayonet to change the harmonics in an effort to shift POI to their favor. The Mosin is practically the poster child of barrel harmonics.
__________________
...nuff said.
The_Kid is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 02:07 AM   #15
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
The_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 564
Liked 14 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 94

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HM2Grunt View Post
The_kid That's fine, but they are not the same animal, and I correct myself if I mislead, an 82 year old Mosin. The manufacturing of the Mosin is not even close to the Eddystone. The Mosin was cheap and fast to make, and I immagine that is why you could not touch an Eddystone for what a Mosin costs today. I envy your owning one. Oh, and I noticed that you tweaked your ammo from issue rounds.
Yes! I "tweaked [my] ammo;" this is why it shoots well.

I've developed loads with pistols that shoot twice as good as your rifle.

I mean you asked for help, but now you're giving-up... before you even try different ammo. To each their own.
__________________
...nuff said.
The_Kid is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 02:31 AM   #16
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: \
Posts: 990
Liked 133 Times on 108 Posts
Likes Given: 43

Default

I have a 1930 Mosin Nagant 91/30. When I got the gun the action and barrel were in like new condition. Anyone who knows guns could tell this gun had never been issued. All the machine marks where the bolt handle turns and locks were still there. The rifling was like new in the barrel. It took several sessions of grinding and sanding to get the gun shooting on target.

I shimmed the barrel with cork. Cleaning the barrel was the hardest part. I used several popular bore cleaners with no luck. Finally I soaked the barrel with WD40 and let it sit for a while. I cleaned it with a brush and ran more rags through it. While I was making headway I still wasn't making enough headway. Finally I soaked the barrel with WD40 and sprayed it again before firing it. WD40 is very flammable. I had no idea of what was going to happen when I fired the Mosin with all the WD40 in the barrel. So put on leather chaps and a leather coat and fired it from the hip while standing in the lake. I thought I had set the surface of the lake on fire but the crud was gone.

I brought the gun home. I put a brass cleaning brush on a rod and went to it with a drill. I ran patches soaked with remoil through the barrel after the brush treatment. the third patch came out clean. I ran dry patches through the barrel until I removed as much remoil as possible.

Time to test the mosin. At about 80 yards I hit a 6" green plastic spinner. I felt confident so I tried to set the spinner back straight by shooting it. I never managed to set the spinner back straight but I hit it the next 5 shots. All with the spinner leaning over so I had a much smaller target than 6" to shoot at. I am very happy with the last test session. The Mosin will go with me as a back up on my black bear hunt 11/10 thru 11/17.

I hate to leave my Brownings at home but the prices better than ever and I plan to dump them after the world series is done interrupting gun auctions. We have so many local laws being passed restricting the use of rifles I hunt with a shotgun 90% of the time anyway.

__________________

"I do not aim with my hand; I aim with my eye. He who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I do not shoot with my hand; I shoot with my mind. He who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father.
I do not kill with my gun; I kill with my heart. He who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father."

Adopt a pet!! http://www.aspca.org/ Some of the finest pleasure horses come from here: http://www.canterusa.org/

Old_Crow is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 07:37 PM   #17
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Trez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 3-P
Posts: 3,585
Liked 671 Times on 447 Posts
Likes Given: 676

Default

Your biggest problem is using the surplus ammo.... Its so inconsistent!! Bullet and charge weights can vary as much as a grain...

From a Soviet Sniper manual- Where to wrap your Mosin 91/30 barrel to dampen the harmonics:

__________________
Quote:
...... I suffer from a very rare genetic defect that causes me to be sympathetic toward the International cause. There is no cure.

Last edited by Trez; 10-26-2012 at 07:40 PM.
Trez is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 02:36 AM   #18
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Edge of Darkness
Posts: 6,495
Liked 4787 Times on 2678 Posts
Likes Given: 1736

Default

Wrap a Nagant to make them more accurate? Don't you get the idea that the poor commies did not trust their governments junk? It sounds like when Setting Bull told the Sioux that there "Ghost shirts", would stop 45-70 rounds at Wounded Knee. How did that one work out?

__________________
nitestalker is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 03:48 PM   #19
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
SSGN_Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,049
Liked 1908 Times on 1141 Posts
Likes Given: 405

Default

I played around with a mid war Mosin 91/30 that I bought, which had a cracked stock. I didn't know the stock was cracked behind the recoil lug until after shooting it and getting 6" groups at 100 yds. after reairing the stock with brass screws and epoxy, I decided there wasn't much point in keeping the stock original so I decided it was time to experiment with bedding methods. I tried the cork method and got down to 3" groups but experienced some of the walking issues you describe. So I went with some sheet metal shims, like the Finns used. Again I got down to just under 3" groups with less wandering of zero as it heated. Finally I epoxy bedded it. Got groups around 2.5 - 3" with less walking and wandering (but I had also sanded out the barrel channel and used some card stock under the barrel at the tip of the stock to get some up pressure by this time and found that this seemed to be a big improvement in the area of the groups wandering or opening up after heating the barrel. A

At this point I tried different ammo. I found that Sellior & Bellot commercial as well as surplus Czech ammo had slighly larger diameter bullets that mic at about .3118. These tightend groups to 2 -2.25" at 100 yds. Brown Bear had a .312 diameter bullet and shot consisent 2" groups with one group at 1.5" out of a box of 20.

So bullet diameter that is apporpriate for your bore can be a big player in tightening the groups. Hungarian heavy ball also shot well, but some Russian surplus and Bulgarian surplus wouldn't produce cosistent groups of less than 3".

__________________
SSGN_Doc is online now  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2012, 05:58 PM   #20
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
HM2Grunt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 467
Liked 186 Times on 120 Posts
Likes Given: 288

Default

SSGN_Doc I have tried different things like you talk about, but I am not getting much improvement. When I sanded out the barrel channel, I noted that one side of the channel was pushing to the left on the barrel still. I have pretty much decided to give up on this stock as warped and shot. The experiment of seeing how good it will shoot with the original equipment and ammo may be over. I looked at and eventually bought a near new looking laminated stock that was set up to use my hex receiver. The rifle fits in the stock tight, and took more wiggling and jiggling to get it in than usual. So I am going to see what I can do with this tighter bedding. As for ammo, I have used some S&B and Czech, but wasn't impressive, although they are where I get my brass to reload. I bought some Soviet "heavies" and will try some, and pull the bullets on some to reload. I will try these changes one at a time and see what happens. Bought some 180 gr Nosler bullets to load up to try more consistant loadings than the Soviet, however the bullet is .308, and my not be optimal for the 1930 barrel. Will have to look for bigger as you suggest. I have to say that I am impressed with the results and multi media reports of same from The Kid. I would have to give him an "A" for presentation, how ever I am not shooting an Eddystone, but I am impressed by his one shot groups anyway. And Kid, I'm glade your pistol shooting is awsome too. You have missed the point, I had been trying to see how my Mosin would shoot, it having come right out of Russian "rehab", using surplus, Soviet, light ball, service rounds, and then tweaking it to improve accuracy with methods available to the Russian troops at the time. Now I will move on and try the more modern methods, and you know, it will still not shoot as good as your EDDYSTONE, but I have decided that I am not going to use your results, because it doesn't matter. My Mosin is not anEDDYSTONE

__________________

GOA,NRA
Old Bolt Actions,
One round at a time.

"This is my Mosin,
There are many like it,
And three or so are mine."


Last edited by HM2Grunt; 10-27-2012 at 06:13 PM.
HM2Grunt is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Mosin Question (accuracy) unclebear General Rifle Discussion 21 12-11-2012 09:18 AM
off hand group size? Vincine General Rifle Discussion 6 05-31-2012 01:00 PM
Confirming Hunting Load Accuracy - M48 7mm-08 - Ten shot group bullet General Rifle Discussion 4 11-11-2011 06:24 PM
knoxx stock vs kicklite recoil reducing stock (mossberg 500) PowerViolence General Shotgun Discussion 3 07-24-2011 04:43 AM
Reducing or Mitigating Barrel Harmonics Stevesdl General Rifle Discussion 2 01-21-2010 02:28 AM