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-   -   Mauser Kar98-Accuracy, Facts and tips (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f18/mauser-kar98-accuracy-facts-tips-86756/)

Mark_Van_Goth 03-17-2013 04:05 PM

Mauser Kar98-Accuracy, Facts and tips
 
Hello all,

I spent the last couple of days by shooting my kar98 (German-1943, 7,92x57 (aka 8mm Mauser)).The only thing I could say is "DAMN, the Germans really know how to make a rifle!!!!"-980 yards, 40x40 cm dong, hit 5/5(I know...that's not such "a big deal", but this is the maxum I can do with my skills and my equipment).

Anyway...I was wondering...

1)What's the maximum range an experienced shooter can achieve with the kar98 and the 8 mm Mauser ammo(Let's say that the rifle is in exceptional conditions, the optics are superb and the ammo is the best for accurate shooting)-I mean...what's the longest confirmed hit?

2)How dangerous/effective would a kar98 sniper variant be in a modern warfare environment-if it has modern optics(including mounts)?

3)How effective would a kar98 sniper variant(Again-with modern optics) be in a sniper-vs-sniper challenge(against a modern sniper bolt-action rifle)?

4)A sniper challenge - Kar98 sniper version vs. M24 Sniper Weapon systems rifle
Challenge's rules:
-Both snipers have the same skills.
-Both snipers have the same optic system(same scope-modern).
-Both sniper uses the original ammo: M24 with 7,62x51 NATO, Kar98 7,92X57 Mauser
-Environmetesert and/or Jungle

What would be the result?What kind of problems would (most probably) each sniper face(with his rifle)?

5)Kar98 Modernization:I'm planning to modernize/update/build a sniper variant of the Kar98.What do you suggest?

Write your opinion regarding:
-Barrel lenght and type
-Weapon's Caliber
-Magazine:Should it be internal or detachable?
-Forniture:What material should be used?Should I change the original desing of the forniture(I'm mean-modelling a new one with a new shape).
-Should the weapon have an integrated rail system?
-Stock:What kind of stock, in your opinion should be used?
-Other:Some tips based on your experience.

Thanks in advance for your response,

Garadex 03-17-2013 08:45 PM

I have no clue but this should be interesting to see the answers.

longunner 03-17-2013 09:41 PM

^I hear that....subscribed...

jpattersonnh 03-17-2013 11:19 PM

If you are looking at a modern variant, take a look at some Norwegian sniper rifles.
http://www.snipercentral.com/nm149s.htm

Now this is what I can tell you about The K98k w/ 4x Zeiss Zeilvier scope and a Howa 1500 .308HB 22" barrel w/ a Sightron SII 3-12a42mmAO scope. Probably as close as you will get to the actual rifles.
The Rifles:
1945 DOU K98k Semi Kreigs w/ an original Zeiss Zeilvier 4x #4 reticule scope, Low Turret bases (they are see through for iron sight use)
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...DSCF0012-3.jpg
Howa .308HB M&P, 22" barrel, Sightron SII big sky 3-12x42mmAO.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...DSCF0006-4.jpg

Bullet performance. The 7.92(8mm) is not your everyday 8x57 ammo when it comes to dedicated ammo. A 196gr bullet w/ a MV of 2700fps was the norm.
147gr standard 7.92 fodder was accurate to 500 yards, but deflected to much from wind, angle after that, so it was a last resort or close shot. MV of the 147gr is 2900fps.
The scope is calibrated for the 196gr round. The elevation is actually in meters as the scope cam is set for the round. 100, 150, 200, 250 etc.
At 800 meters (the scopes max adjustment) that is 874 yards. The windage is set using the scope base. Once the scope is zeroed it comes down to the shooter to know what hold to use. The width of the post itself is often used as mil-dots on modern military scopes. W/ pretty much any ammo loaded to the specs of the era it is a Sub 2" shooter at 100 meters. Consider the fact it only has a standard military 3 step contour barrel that makes it deadly w/ any ammo of the time to 600 meters+. Forget head shots. 16" kill zone. 12" and less w/ quality ammo.

OK, now the Howa. I shoot lots of 147gr nato ammo. Not sniper grade by any means. It will shoot 1/2" ragged holes at 100 yards all day long. W/ 165gr or 168gr handloads it is stellar at distance. Using match grade handloads at 700 yards (640 Meters) it is easily a 12" shooter, but the scope takes more thought at distance.
The Mauser adjustments are visual, the Howa are feel. To return to zero, the Howa/ Sightron is more difficult.
With either, I would not want to be 800 yards from the muzzle. Quality tailored Ammo is key in both to extend range.

Mark_Van_Goth 03-23-2013 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpattersonnh (Post 1179955)
If you are looking at a modern variant, take a look at some Norwegian sniper rifles.
http://www.snipercentral.com/nm149s.htm

Now this is what I can tell you about The K98k w/ 4x Zeiss Zeilvier scope and a Howa 1500 .308HB 22" barrel w/ a Sightron SII 3-12a42mmAO scope. Probably as close as you will get to the actual rifles.
The Rifles:
1945 DOU K98k Semi Kreigs w/ an original Zeiss Zeilvier 4x #4 reticule scope, Low Turret bases (they are see through for iron sight use)
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...DSCF0012-3.jpg
Howa .308HB M&P, 22" barrel, Sightron SII big sky 3-12x42mmAO.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...DSCF0006-4.jpg

Bullet performance. The 7.92(8mm) is not your everyday 8x57 ammo when it comes to dedicated ammo. A 196gr bullet w/ a MV of 2700fps was the norm.
147gr standard 7.92 fodder was accurate to 500 yards, but deflected to much from wind, angle after that, so it was a last resort or close shot. MV of the 147gr is 2900fps.
The scope is calibrated for the 196gr round. The elevation is actually in meters as the scope cam is set for the round. 100, 150, 200, 250 etc.
At 800 meters (the scopes max adjustment) that is 874 yards. The windage is set using the scope base. Once the scope is zeroed it comes down to the shooter to know what hold to use. The width of the post itself is often used as mil-dots on modern military scopes. W/ pretty much any ammo loaded to the specs of the era it is a Sub 2" shooter at 100 meters. Consider the fact it only has a standard military 3 step contour barrel that makes it deadly w/ any ammo of the time to 600 meters+. Forget head shots. 16" kill zone. 12" and less w/ quality ammo.

OK, now the Howa. I shoot lots of 147gr nato ammo. Not sniper grade by any means. It will shoot 1/2" ragged holes at 100 yards all day long. W/ 165gr or 168gr handloads it is stellar at distance. Using match grade handloads at 700 yards (640 Meters) it is easily a 12" shooter, but the scope takes more thought at distance.
The Mauser adjustments are visual, the Howa are feel. To return to zero, the Howa/ Sightron is more difficult.
With either, I would not want to be 800 yards from the muzzle. Quality tailored Ammo is key in both to extend range.

Thank you very much for the response!You really know what you're talking about.A friend of mine (former marksman) confirmed everything you wrote and is going to show me exactly what ammunition and scope must be used in order to achive the maximum accurancy.Anyway...since it seems that you're an experienced shooter, I would ask you for some advices regarding a custom mauser built


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